Appreciating Names of All Cultures

@Luminen your comment reminds me of how football players influence naming trends for boys in the Netherlands. [name_m]Jari[/name_m] was a big hit in the 90s here because of [name_m]Jari[/name_m] Litmanen, currently one of the more trendy names is [name_m]Xavi[/name_m], also of footballer fame. [name_m]Jari[/name_m] is probably easier to pronounce for the average [name_m]Dutch[/name_m] person.

I think [name_m]Dutch[/name_m] parents are an odd combination of tame, easily influenced and adventurous in their naming choices. I’ve known girl triplets growing up, one had a Russian’s boys name, the other a Hungarian girls’ name and the third girl’s name gets credited as Hebrew but I initially thought it was composed. The three names rhyme. It didn’t even occur to me that their names were weirdly out of context until recently, because I grew up with them.

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I second the thought of “nice to have on your UC, doubtable when you’re naming a kid”. I love the Zulu name [name_u]Anele[/name_u] but will not use it on an actual child.
I’m fine with people using Turkish names and everyone I know actually like it when foreign people consider our names. But I’m not saying this is the same for every nation, and Turkey was never colonised so that affects the situation a lot. However, I honestly feel weird when people ignore the original pronunciation. You might like the aye-la pronunciation better, but [name_f]Ayla[/name_f] is never pronounced like that in Turkish. You might want to “Anglicise” the pronunciation but then just using an [name_f]English[/name_f] name might be better.

TL;DR: I won’t use the names of marginalised nations, even though I really like them. If I ever use a name from another culture, I’ll respect the original pronunciation.

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This is delightful and very funny to me. :smile:

I mean, I would say this counts as having a meaningful connection to a culture, even though it’s one I wouldn’t have thought of. I get that football can be a big part of people’s identity. :soccer:

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[name_f]My[/name_f] main suggestion for how to increase support for multicultural names on Nameberry would be to improve the Nameberry database. Right now, its coverage of non-[name_f]English[/name_f] names is not great, to say the least. The entries for [name_f]English[/name_f] names are typically way longer and contain more information that those of non-[name_f]English[/name_f] names. Compare the entry for [name_f]Charlotte[/name_f] to that of [name_f]Megumi[/name_f] and you’ll see what I mean. The bias towards [name_f]English[/name_f] names is apparent. Imagine if the entry for Charlotte just said “A Western name not widely known in Japan”. That would never happen. Instead, it’s Japanese names that are othered.

Nameberry needs to get more input from native speakers regarding meanings, pronunciations and associations before the database can be reflective of other cultures’ names.

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So true. Many of non-[name_f]English[/name_f] names don’t even have a meaning on their pages.

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I’ve been trying to put my thoughts together on this in a concise way—not that it matters, because I am a fellow white. Speaking very personally & subjectively, my parents are both first-gen Americans, and when their parents arrived in the States, their respective cultures were not highly regarded or respected—so they conformed to the best of their ability. [name_f]My[/name_f] grandmother’s family changed their names. [name_f]My[/name_f] grandfather became a dock worker like many immigrants of his background for comfort, and when my grandmother and grandfather met, my grandmother was able to completely abandon her past and become fake Irish. We’ve been [name_u]New[/name_u] [name_m]York[/name_m] Irish ever since—fishing boats and firemen and bars and uncles all named Seanie, [name_u]Paddy[/name_u], and [name_u]Jackie[/name_u]. [name_f]My[/name_f] mom was horrified by her siblings taking those DNA test box sets because my grandmother made it pretty clear that they were who they were— and it didn’t matter what your blood said (lots of internalized hatred going on— but it does make sense for her time).

This is not an uncommon family history in the US. Because the dominant culture of assimilation has never really been kind to preservation. So how can you tell whether someone is entitled to a name from a different culture or not? I first became interested in names because I knew my grandfather was called [name_u]Jackie[/name_u], but on the back of all his childhood photos, his name was [name_m]Padraig[/name_m]. I don’t feel a strong connection to Irish culture outside of what I grew up practicing, but being able to know what came before was fascinating to me. And I learned — and kept learning. Looked elsewhere. I’ve said this a million times now, but names (and food culture) are such an excellent opportunity to learn.

And I think it’s okay if you learn, and love a name, and love what you learn, and then use the name because you have so much respect for the culture you’ve learned about. And I also think, at the end of the day, it’s not our business to judge strangers on their choices because we do not know them — and an interrogation is not exactly a good first impression, yk. Especially since most people just do their best.

The lines are blurred when you use a name specifically for its aesthetic value— perceived exoticism or sound quality. I use them as examples a lot, but Hawaiian names or names designed in the key of Hawaiian names—[name_f]Leilani[/name_f], [name_f]Meilani[/name_f], [name_f]Roselani[/name_f]. [name_f]Every[/name_f] time someone says “means flower of heaven— so pretty!” I feel icky. But I also recognize that’s me feeing uncomfortable on behalf of Native Hawaiians—when many are unconcerned by it (“[name_f]Aloha[/name_f] is for everyone”). It’s an emotionally charged issue—and being kind of impartial is difficult when we all want to be good and considerate people.

I don’t think there will ever be a clear cut answer to what’s appropriation and what’s appreciation, because everyone has different perspectives. I don’t think it’s fair to gate keep — mainly because the whole point of preserving culture is to pass it on —sure, to immediate descendants firstly, but we don’t exist in individual bubbles.

I love seeing people find new names from other cultures, because it’s almost impossible to not seek out more or accompanying history. We have so much information available to us that it would be upsetting if we didn’t take advantage of it. Nameberry’s descriptions on non-Western names honestly often trend pretty embarrassing, if not totally xenophobic :grimacing:. I rarely use the name search part of this site for that reason. So if the powers that be could maybe take a note and… fix that, especially since we continue to demonstrate dissatisfaction…!

And that wasn’t concise at all. So, tl;dr — cultural entitlement to names* is very not black and white and also just be respectful and willing to learn and hear feedback from natives of a culture and that’s all.

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Does use of the name actually offend a group?
Yes, then probably don’t use it anywhere.

Or are you being offended on the behalf of a group that you are not a part of?
Hmmm this seems questionable

I agree with this most of our problems start when we start dictating what other people ‘are’ or what other people ‘should do’ when all we have control over is ourselves.

Personally I don’t believe we should use names that are offensive, period. But For most people I know, they would be flattered to meet a child with a name from their culture (again so long as it’s not offensive or disrespectful) and I don’t think we have room to judge others on their choices.
Just for an example I am blonde haired, blue eyed and white as can be. However I have two great grandmothers who are part or full Native American, so would it be off limits to use their Native American names because I’m white? And my baby is Basque & Argentinian but still has blonde hair and blue eyes. We live in such a multicultural world that you can no longer judge another’s cultural heritage by the way they look.

The only thing we can do is be understanding, patient and kind to those around us. Even when they do things we might deem as ‘offensive’.

Also just as an after thought, there’s only so many sounds in the world. Many cultures came up with the same names, so sometimes it’s hard to even determine the origin of the name itself

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I agree with this so much. Often, minorities are forced to Americanize their names, or maybe even are prohibited from expressing their culture. This example strays from the topic at hand, but I think it’s a good analogy. When a black little girl wears her hair in a natural hairstyle, she gets bullied and made fun of and told it’s ugly. But then you see so many white people imitate these hairstyles, and on them it’s cool and stylish. It must be very painful to see that. The same goes for names. For instance, Irish people were ostracized and discriminated against for a long time. It must be hurtful to see their names valued more and thought of as better on others than on actual Irish people.

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I guess for me (and this might make no sense) it really just depends on the name and whether you really understand the culture of it.

I’m Hispanic and live in the US. Some Spanish names I think are very multicultural like [name_m]Hugo[/name_m], [name_f]Ramona[/name_f], [name_f]Isabella[/name_f], [name_f]Gabriella[/name_f], [name_f]Isla[/name_f], [name_f]Bianca[/name_f], [name_f]Lola[/name_f], [name_f]Rosa[/name_f], [name_u]Arlo[/name_u], [name_m]Marco[/name_m], [name_u]Carmen[/name_u], [name_u]Sierra[/name_u], [name_f]Reina[/name_f] and more, but names that are very obviously from another culture seem very odd if you’re not from that culture (say a white person named [name_m]Santiago[/name_m] or [name_f]Alejandra[/name_f]). However I do think that if the name is popular globally or in your country or culture, or it’s a name from another culture has become popular with another one (and doesn’t have any major cultural significance) it could be a different story. [name_f]My[/name_f] #1 boy is [name_m]Osiris[/name_m] is an Egyptian name but I have only ever heard of it being used in Spanish speaking communities. Similarly, if you live in a country not of your origin and plan on staying, I think it’s ok to use an anglicized version of a name of the culture where you live for a baby.

If you have a name from a different culture in your UC I think that is fine as long as you don’t overstep the line (don’t put [name_m]Cohen[/name_m] in your UC unless your Jewish). Appreciating and appropriating are two very different things. You can love and appreciate the Spanish name [name_m]Maximo[/name_m] without using it for your own child. Of course if I met a child named Maximo I wouldn’t say anything because what’s done is done and you can’t change that. I think we should all learn to love names of different cultures while still respecting the origin of them.

([name_m]Just[/name_m] my two cents on the subject, I hope I didn’t offend!)

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Yes, this is a very good point (and a lot of PPs have pointed this out as well), I don’t think anyone who believes cultural appopriation is bad would say that to a child with that name, or even an adult for that matter. A kid can’t change what their parents decided before they were even born, and they won’t understand the concept of cultural appropriation anyways. This is pretty obvious but I just think it should be said…even if we think cultural appropriation is bad, we’re obviously not going to hold it against anyone! :grinning:

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Very well said :clap:

What’s wrong with [name_m]Maximo[/name_m]?

@OpheliaFlora Oh nothing! I was just using it as an example of a Spanish name

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