A comment I recently read has brought up a question for me: Are there limits to how critical one should when giving out name opinions?
It seems perfectly acceptable to say:
Name is not my style
Name seems made up/invented
You should spell it differently
Name is too out there
Name is too boring
… I could go on.
What about expressing other thoughts you may honestly have? Is it okay to say things like:
Name sounds low class (or trailer trash)
Name sounds like it comes from uneducated (or perhaps unintelligent) parents
Name sounds like if fits into some racial or culture stereotype too well
Name cannot possibly be taken seriously professionally
Is it that we are too sensitive? Or, are some comments just not relevant? I am going to assume any comment is not made with mean intentions.
I know when people make negative comments about my very popular name it is annoying. Most of the time it is simply because of the popularity it enjoyed. Does that mean that I would not want that feedback if I was considering it for my own baby? I probably would.
Are the latter comments just plain mean no matter what the intentions were? Are there just some things you shouldn’t say, even if you have those thoughts? Is this an example of over sensitivity and overreactions?
Critical comments are…welll…critical. They can be read with an inferred harsh or disapproving tones. Some opinions are just plain cruel and uncalled for (for instance, the trailer trash and uneducated parents comments from your second list). Parents choose names based on so many factors and I don’t think they should be told they are stupid, unimaginative, unintelligent, etc. just because someone doesn’t like the name they chose (and indeed, what one person hates, another person loves). Maybe they want to name their daughter [name_f]Amber[/name_f], a name frequently bashed for being a “stripper name”. Someone may tell them “wow, that sounds like a girl who will grow up to be a stripper! I like … better!”. Maybe they were choosing [name_f]Amber[/name_f] after a recently-deceased family friend. You just don’t know and regardless of what you think, there are just some things that should not be said. My mom taught me that I should always strive to be respectful of everyone, no matter what, so I think that one has to approach commenting on a name with respect for the parents. [name_m]Even[/name_m] if you try to say something respectful, people may still take offense. I don’t think it is over sensitivity…we just don’t know where the other person is coming from. Plus, I think people sometimes lose sight of the fact that other people are on the other side of the computer screen…they have feelings.
As long as you are saying them to be helpful and not intentionally mean, then I think critical comments are okay if worded civilly. There is no point asking for opinions and then expecting them all to be positive because that wouldn’t be honest. If you ask for help, you need to prepared to be less sensitive.
As an [name_f]Amber[/name_f] I hear a lot of negative things about my name on name websites, and I think there is a difference between constructive criticism and just criticism. You don’t have to like a name, but if you don’t have anything helpful to say I think it should be kept to yourself. “[name_f]Amber[/name_f] seems kind of dated to me, I would suggest _____” is helpful whereas “[name_f]Amber[/name_f] is a trailer trash name, you sound like a teen mom” not helpful, and a little cruel. I think when you give advice you should make sure your advice is meant to help, not judge. [name_m]Even[/name_m] blunt advice like “I’m not sure [name_f]Brynlee[/name_f] would be easy to wear as an adult, what do you think of [name_f]Briony[/name_f]?” is acceptable in my opinion, because that is helpful advice, not judgmental criticism like “[name_f]Brynlee[/name_f] is trendy and trashy”.
There is a LOT to unpack here. To be as succinct as possible, there’s a difference between saying:
“[name_m]Don[/name_m]'t use that, it’s a stripper / trash / etc name.”
and
“Sadly, I think some people will associate [name_f]Amber[/name_f] with strippers / lower class, and there’s a stigma about sex work / being lower class and people may judge the child based on that”.
Some things I wouldn’t tolerate:
Calling a name “ghetto”. Calling a name “ghetto” is and always will be racist, doesn’t matter if it was intentional or not.
Calling people “illiterate” or “uneducated” because of a name choice or spelling. You don’t know them - and not everyone has the same educational opportunities.
-“Trash” or “scum” or what have you, are not acceptable words to describe a group of people.
I think pretty much everything is allowed before the name is given to a child (without being rude or unreasonable), but only “it’s not for me” should be allowed afterwards.
I personally think that honesty is the best policy- but always remembering that it is YOUR personal opinion and that it doesn’t/ probably isn’t shared by everybody. Thus, I think honest criticsm is ok, as long as it is said in a polite way. I don’t think it should be always constructive criticism, because sometimes you just don’t like a name, and it’s ok, but you could say, “Personally, I don’t like …” instead of, “The name … is awful, I absolutely hate it and you must be incredibly stupid to be naming your kid that”.
Hmmm, there’s a lot to unpack here. You asked “Is it that we are too sensitive? Or, are some comments just not relevant? I am going to assume any comment is not made with mean intentions.” Honestly, I think both are the case. Some people are very sensitive and don’t like any negative feedback, which to me negates the purpose of posting for opinions. I’d rather have honest feedback. Some of my favourites are “old lady names”, and I don’t mind them being called that. I’d rather hear a critical comment than have everyone be positive and then I find out later that there is a glaring problem with the name I chose that I never saw. I don’t mind comments about popularity and pop culture references. I don’t have the time or inclination to follow a lot of pop culture stuff, so I’d love to know if one of my chosen names actually has an awful reference. I might still use it, but I’d rather know than not.
On the other hand, some comments really are not relevant or helpful. Some are just vague, like “That name is stupid”. I don’t particularly like “It’s not my style”, because of course we have different styles and I don’t expect my taste to be the same as everyone else’s. I do think phrases like “stripper name” or “ghetto” are loaded and inadvisable.
To your question “Are there just some things you shouldn’t say?”
My answer is yes with the emphasis on how we say them, and can any adverse information be conveyed in an alternative way to e.g. ‘Its the name of a lot of undesirable people.’(Judgmental and not always universal which sometime needs separate consideration.)
I will now hope to answer and convey my opinion in a ‘[name_u]Berry[/name_u]’ polite way.
(I know am oversensitive but I would still like to express my honest opinion.)
This ‘guy’ is so ‘sensitive’ I am mildly offended that you don’t use a more encompassing form of address like "Berries’’ in order to make an oversensitive older [name_u]Berry[/name_u] who is a bit beyond the expression ‘guys’ feel more included. Its a very small thing, I would never normally comment on, but you did request honesty, seriously and without meanness. It sounds friendly but just seems a tad elitist targeting a younger group of people.
I am an extremely sensitive, hopefully realistic, older mom and will not even reply to a thread if I can’t offer more positive than negative comment - because I know it is just my opinions, my experiences and yes, my style.
In reply to you first points:-
1.When I first joined a naming site I was so pleased to have the guidelines of n.m.s. which means a a lot to me. It means that there is no heavy attached offense /association ( known of), its a perfectly good name, but either I personally don’t like it or it is not my "style " in the strict sense of the word. So the name is ‘all good’ if its your style or choice, and I am, in the situation, just expressing honestly that I don’t like the name. This may not be relevant to what you want to know, or of any interest, but I would argue that most of what is written on this site is about peoples own ideas, preferences and feelings etc. not just honest objectivity. The whole subject ofnames is subjective.imo.
2.Re ‘made up’ - there is a certain combination of letter or sounds which don’t seem to fit our sense of subconscious linguistic competence or knowledge of what sounds right in English. Personally I would love to have the creativity and skill to ‘make up’ a name that is a set of sounds put in an unobtrusive order. I find the whole concept ill labelled. That sounds harsh but on the other hand, I think we have coined this particular phrase and we all understand what is meant - the name seems linguistically incompetent, the name may have repetitive letters which are unnecessary for the pronunciation or it could be embellished with unnecessary letters for (subjective) aesthetic visual appeal. Therefore still a useful tool.
No3 re spelling, is covered by the point above.
In conclusion re the comments, unfortunately pointless for you, do you see that your wording is definitive. The name is out there. The name is boring. You my have just been putting them into this form for your particular post, yes? Again I would suggest our sense of using relevant subjectivity as compared to an omnipotent judgmental tone, dictates we add -[name_f]IMO[/name_f] it seems. Boring? please, honestly, which names are boring? I am worried to know… most of the names I like fit this category.
Re:Your suggested honest comments.
1.Would you explain what is trailer trash? I could not comment about low class since I luckily live in a country where there is not any reference made to low class; low income earners, but not low class. If one does exist, again I would have to beg your enlightenment to explain how to determine this.
2. I am not in a position to consider myself a judge of what is uneducated or unintelligent, so I will skip this one.
3. My apologies I am not garnering your meaning with this one, Roughly yes, but I cannot decide your exact meaning.
To take a guess, for example, the male name [name_m]Cohen[/name_m] which has special significance in ethnic Jewish communities. Recently,
A [name_u]Berry[/name_u] proposed the name as a preference for her expected child. The replying [name_u]Berry[/name_u] recommended that she google the name for the resaon mentioned above. What a wonderful way to make the expectant mom aware of possible associations rather than saying ‘[name_m]Cohen[/name_m] has/is…’
So I’m guessing again- [name_m]Fairchild[/name_m] or [name_f]Mary[/name_f]-[name_f]Jane[/name_f] cannot be taken seriously in a professional sense? with respect to holding a job with more responsibility than to pick up papers (apologies to those who do pick up papers -it is my own idea that its a job of lesser financial recompense and social standing) or perhaps with respect to a position representing company promotional ideals. “our P.R. Manager, [name_u]Hunter[/name_u].”
For all the [name_f]Mary[/name_f]-[name_f]Anne[/name_f]'s out there who are excellent students, teachers, surgeons or company employees, I hope my experience is not wrong, & that they are achieving just fine in spite not having a seriously professional name. This topic has been debated and statistically analyzed. [name_f]Do[/name_f] you have results that show names affect a career or the effectiveness of whether teacher’s requests are taken seriously? I may be right out of date here.
In comparison to some less controlled or inherently courteous sites, Nameberry is a positive joy in terms of politeness, encouragement and constructive advice, yet successfully managing to get points across.
One naming site I am a member of has the motto: “if you can google the info please don’t just ask online-” possible presumptive that all have access and capability of doing this research themselves.
Research that usually informs of any negative connotations thus leaving online for those who want our opinion about what we like.
My idea is that that feedback and queries of a harsher or possibly more sensitive nature can be gained by requesting them individually. I would hate to see Nameberry become a site where I worry my ideas of a great name would receive comments that upset me. [name_m]Just[/name_m] yesterday I requested a gentle assessment. The response was more than gentle. The [name_u]Berry[/name_u] understood where I was at and treated me and the situation so kindly.
I would propose to you, ask for honest feedback with respect to the issues that concern you, (always remember google) and sometimes inaccuracy or lack of detail there might still need a post, a specific post to Berries who would likely have more accurate knowledge.
In the Understanding and Shared [name_f]Hope[/name_f] we all want to give our children names they can proudly carry through life with as little angst as possible. Thank you.
I agree with what a lot of other posters have said before me, so I don’t know if my response adds anything, but I’ll throw my 2 cents in.
In general, I find nameberry to be far more polite than other sites. I know that there may be names mentioned that have brought about thoughts that fall into this area:
However, I’m also aware that nameberry is international. What may be normal in one area may evoke different thoughts in another place. The best example that comes to mind is [name_f]Jemima[/name_f]. In the US, the negative connotations have limited the use of the name, while it’s popular in other parts of the world. [name_m]Even[/name_m] on nameberry there are very different opinions on a topic related to #4 (formal given names vs nickname-y given names), but I think it’s been handled well so far. [name_m]Even[/name_m] in the US there may be differences depending on your region. So, I try to avoid making any mention of those thoughts.
I am a big believer in letting people know the associations with a name. It’s up to them to decide if the association is a deal breaker or not. I know I’d rather know than name my child something and later wonder “why didn’t anyone tell me?!”
Being “too sensitive” is subjective. I may think someone is being too sensitive, while someone else may disagree and think they are in the right. For some people, a name is tied to a person, to insult a name is to insult a specific person. That may make them appear to be more sensitive. This may be the type of person that gets more upset when their name is put down. For me, a name is broad and non-identifying until you start specifically identifying a person ([name_m]John[/name_m] is boring vs [name_m]John[/name_m] [name_u]James[/name_u] [name_m]Smith[/name_m] is boring). My name is put down a lot, but it doesn’t bother me. I actually look at the “I hate threads” to see how many say my name Am I less sensitive than the other person? No, I just view it a different way. I think this may be how the conflict arises and feelings get hurt. I doubt there’s malicious intent most of the time.
To be honest, If I wanted to know the brutal truth about what people think about my (future children’s) names I would probably go elsewhere. I don’t shy away from the harsh comments since it is what people think and it can have an impact on a child’s future, but there are very few people from my region on nameberry. Although, one of the bonuses of nameberry is that there’s the opportunity to find out potential negative associations elsewhere (like a name meaning something else in another language). It’s part of why I’d like to see more international berries!
It can be very painful when people respond negatively on your favourite baby name. But it saved my little girl being named [name_f]Feodora[/name_f] nn [name_f]Feo[/name_f].
I diddn’t knew that ‘‘feo’’ means ugly in spanish. So, I had to cry a little at that point but… It saved my kid being bullied for her name I quess… So for that, I thank you other mom-berries:rolleyes:
My biggest problem is that the four comments you’ve given as examples for more critical ‘feedback’ are, whether worded nicely or not, and whether intentional or not, offensive. It’s not a sensitivity issue when someone starts to use classism or racial stereotypes to class a name, it’s a respect issue. I think that, regardless of how they’re worded, comments regarding class, education, race and stereotypes are unnecessary, hurtful whether intended or not, and insensitive, really.
For a personal example: I used to see a plethora of comments claiming that both my first name and my sister’s first names belong in a featured segment on [name_u]Maury[/name_u] or [name_u]Jerry[/name_u] [name_m]Springer[/name_m], not on a lawyer or a doctor. Thankfully, my sister and I are a bit more confident with our names than that, but for a while, that seriously bothered me. I’m incredibly old fashioned, more so than many other twenty year olds out there - I don’t entirely plan on saving myself for marriage, but certainly for the person I can see myself comfortably having children with if that should happen, I have never once drank more than I could handle, I’ve never been to a club, I’ve had one boyfriend my entire life, and I’m currently attending college to enter journalism, not to mention the fact that literally, all this past week while my friends have gone to parties, I’ve sat in my room watching [name_u]Chris[/name_u] [name_m]Pine[/name_m] movies like they’re going out of style and shopping in the city, freaking out because I got a free sample of make up from [name_f]Sephora[/name_f]. Hmm, does this sound like something off of [name_u]Maury[/name_u] or [name_u]Jerry[/name_u] [name_m]Springer[/name_m] to you? It certainly doesn’t to me.
I found that comment to be so, so unbelievably irrelevant when it was made, and I continue to see comments like that as such. My mother is college educated, my father is not, and had I been a boy, I would have been named [name_m]Charles[/name_m], [name_u]Mackenzie[/name_u] or [name_m]Daniel[/name_m], they all sound like ‘strong, respectable’ names to me, so why is it ok for some to assume that because my name is a ‘misspelling’ of [name_f]Hayley[/name_f]/[name_f]Hailey[/name_f] (My spelling is actually the original), that my parents are uneducated, or ‘low class’? I know a very high class family with a child named [name_f]Neveah[/name_f], and a ‘lower’ class family with a child named [name_m]Kenneth[/name_m] and to me, the education of the parents and level of income the family lives off of are so, entirely irrelevant to the child themselves and the name, that you may as well take into account the mother’s favourite film or the father’s favourite favour of ice cream, when critiquing their name choices if you’re going to judge and comment based on their education.
Sorry for going off on a tangent, but I am so annoyed by comments like these.
What I noticed is that the first 5 are directed at the name itself, while the last 4 are directed at people. I feel like that’s kind of crossing the line between criticizing a name and hurting a person with the name. Unless the connotation is obvious (i.e. [name_m]Christian[/name_m] probably has [name_m]Christian[/name_m] parents), bringing a person into an opinion about a name is not always appropriate. In my opinion, people should try to direct their criticism at the sound, meaning or origin of the name, not the people who have it or the people who use it.
As other posters have pointed out, it’s much less about what you say than how you say it. I’ve seen way too many people on here use “honesty” as a veil for rudeness and hypercriticism. Of course if I ask for your opinion, I say I want an honest one, but that does not mean I want a harshly worded tirade about how much you dislike my names from some super salty white teenberry. You can be honest without being rude, which is why you need to watch your tone and word choices.
Of course there are some comments that no matter how you word them, are offensive. Those include the examples that are critical of the people have/choose them rather than the names themselves, and the examples that are classist and racist. Those are never acceptable.
If I don’t like a name, I’ll usually just say “I’m not a fan of this name.” or “Not my style.”
Usually it’s because I dislike the way it sounds. Though there are some names that I simply can’t take seriously. For example, I can’t picture a name like [name_f]Lolly[/name_f] or [name_m]Bodhi[/name_m] on anyone over the age of five or on a resume no matter how hard I try.
but on the other hand, I think we have coined this particular phrase and we all understand what is meant - the name seems linguistically incompetent, the name may have repetitive letters which are unnecessary for the pronunciation or it could be embellished with unnecessary letters for (subjective) aesthetic visual appeal. Therefore still a useful tool.
Am I less sensitive than the other person? No, I just view it a different way. I think this may be how the conflict arises and feelings get hurt. I doubt there’s malicious intent most of the time.
