I guess I’ve been on here long enough now that some of the threads relating to cultural ignorance seems like enough of a pattern I’m a little shocked. Maybe I shouldn’t be shocked, but I am!
This is inspired today by the “[name]India[/name]” thread, but I’ve seen it on numerous occasions since I’ve joined. People asking about a name that is highly controversial and the majority of the people being totally blind to why it is. The excuse is always seems to be that they didn’t learn about that in public school. But how is it that some people can be so in tuned with the politics of a name or topic and others so blind? That were educated in the same country in public schools?
At what point, as adults, do you stop using what you learned or did not learn in high school as an excuse for ignorance? Especially in the world of google? You’re adults…broaden your horizens. [name]Do[/name] a little research. Keep your mind active. I mean, for the most part, those of us who are well-versed in world history did not get a significantly different education than the rest of the country. [name]Just[/name] took initiative…or something. I guess I can’t quite grasp it.
And it’s not just the internet. A friend of mine from Indonesia. At a party once (I can’t remember how it came up) she made a comment about the Dutch “taking her country’s spices” (I assume cooking was the topic). My husband said back to her “they took a lot more than your spices.” The majority of the people standing around us had absolutely no clue what on earth either of them were talking about. My husband is Bosnian and grew up during the War. Yet very few people have any knowledge about it beyond remembering hearing about some war in Europe in the 90’s.
So I guess I shouldn’t be surprised when it comes to naming children people can be so gloriously ignorant, but it does.
I just wish adults would take a little more initiative now that world history is at your fingertips. Educate yourselves and don’t use your public education as an excuse any longer.
You have a very, very good point and I have tried to bring this up before. Naming a child requires research and shouldn’t be based on just what you think sounds pretty. There are other people out there, there are things beyond your borders and your life that happen that are tragic and impact people in huge ways. [name]Just[/name] because you had never heard of it does not mean it didn’t happen or that it didn’t hurt a ton of people. (Or in the case of things like [name]Cohen[/name] or names of Native American tribes - taking something from another religion / spirituality and just using it to your liking) No amount of “Well, in American public high school, we weren’t taught about that” matters in the end because, in theory, you are an adult and should be taking the responsibility for your choices and doing the research and acknowledging that naming another person makes an impact beyond your own personal bubble.
I think that if you come across a name, you should do a lot of research and a lot of thinking if it comes from a different culture. [name]Just[/name] because you find it pretty or evocative does not mean that it’s appropriate or that it’s not offensive.
I’m not saying you should walk on eggshells with every single name, but a lot of times it’s just pure common sense. Hmmm…the British caused literally billions of people in this country to die, maybe being white and using this name is a bad idea. Or [name]Gypsy[/name] for example, I have seen this floating around, too - it’s a racial slur! A quick google search will show you this.
It just blows my mind that, ESPECIALLY in [name]America[/name], stuff like this is just used and the implications are just ignored! [name]America[/name] is a melting pot of cultures, to think that the possibility of coming across people from other countries / cultures is unlikely is just ignorant. Or thinking that by the time your child grows up that the world won’t be even MORE global than it is now is also quite ignorant.
I completely agree! It blows my mind. I guess it brings to mind romantic images of the [name]Romany[/name] culture / lifestyle? I don’t know, it’s not an excuse. Those people were persecuted and killed along side the Jews, it’s not acceptable.
Isn’t there a show “My Big Fat [name]Gypsy[/name] Wedding”? Well, I guess the television networks should be a little more culturally aware as well. With the internet, libraries and hundreds of baby name books at our disposal, there is really NO excuse for IGNORANCE.
I think it’s been this way for a long time. If it doesn’t directly affect that person, they can’t see why it’s offensive, and I think it’s basically a lack of empathy. We live in a very self-centered society and some people can’t see their own political incorrectness. It’s like, “well I’m going to name my son [name]Cohen[/name] because I like the way it sounds and I don’t care if people don’t like it, but I’m going to get really upset if someone refers to a [name]Christmas[/name] tree as a “holiday tree” because that offends my religion.” They literally cannot see the hypocrisy.
I wouldn’t say we’re “becoming” culturally dense, because in most respects, I think we’ve always been so. The difference is that now that more and more people travel, immigrate, and integrate into other countries, our cultures intersect so we need to care whether we’re dense. In 1900, a white couple could name their daughter [name]India[/name] without caring in the least whether it would offend someone, because they were unlikely to interact with someone from [name]India[/name]. Now, not so much. We interact more with people of diverse backgrounds, and we no longer feel "confined’ to the names and habits of our own culture… but sometimes that leads to ignorantly taking aspects of culture without understanding them, and it can cause offense.
I grew up in a large multicultural city (47% are members of a visible minority, 50% born outside of [name]Canada[/name]), so it’s second nature for me to consider that what I consider innocuous may offend someone. It is likely harder for someone raised in a less diverse setting to think about that, especially if your education system never taught you any history but your own. Still, it’s important to consider the cultural ramifications of your kids’ names because who knows where life will take them one day. What if your daughter [name]India[/name] wants to study in [name]India[/name] for a year or falls in love with a guy from [name]India[/name]? Her name may cause embarrassment in the long run. [name]Do[/name] some Google searching before you affix a name to your child. My mom loves the name [name]Jemima[/name], but as Canadians, neither of us knew the cultural baggage of the “Aunt [name]Jemima[/name]” term. Now that I’ve seen it on Nameberry, I would never ever name my child that. (Well, I wasn’t too into it before that, but now I’m really not going to!) My husband and I are different races and cultures, so I certainly don’t want my children to have a name that has been associated with racism and ignorance.
I find your post to be hypocritical…here you are preaching about not naming children “offensive” things only to go on to say “don’t use your public school education as an excuse”. Basically saying a having a public school education makes someone less educated. My public school education has served me quite well, thank you very much!
She is referencing a specific person who “used their public school education as an excuse” in a recent post. When she says, “The excuse is always seems to be that they didn’t learn about that in public school. But how is it that some people can be so in tuned with the politics of a name or topic and others so blind? That were educated in the same country in public schools?” she is pointing out that the excuse doesn’t work because there are many people who were educated in public schools who know better. I also got a great education in the public school system, and I was annoyed to see the excuse made in the earlier thread.
Firstly, I really don’t mean to upset anyone- just trying to air an opinion!
And perhaps this is a US thing because some names have much better reception over here in the UK (especially [name]India[/name]- is that surprising given that it was the British colonisation of [name]India[/name]?)
I totally agree that people should do at least a little research when naming a child. However many people don’t and what I disagree with is that people who don’t thoroughly research different cultures in order to find a politically correct name should be deemed ignorant. With [name]India[/name], for instance, I believe many people (at least in the UK) who are otherwise intelligent, honestly don’t know the entire history. It’s certainly not something I’ve come across until recently. I assume many parents considering the name (even if they do know the history) admire it for its loveliness and link to a beautiful country and are not intending to hurt anyone.
Another point I’d like to make is that these are English given names in their own right and I’m sure many other names somehow have links to horrific times in the past. I grew up with an [name]India[/name] and also a [name]Christian[/name]. I obviously knew the names were also a country/religion but to me they were just names –they only ever reminded me of those people and had no connection with what I knew of [name]India[/name] or Christianity.
I understand [name]Ireland[/name] is gaining popularity in the US as a name (seems to be a favourite place-name on NB) but is that considered controversial? Have people researched the history of the [name]IRA[/name]? What about [name]Israel[/name] & [name]Jordan[/name] and the recent conflicts there? These appear popular and surely most people have some understanding of what’s going on in the Middle [name]East[/name].
Having said all that, I agree that there are names that require a degree of common sense in today’s world ([name]Cohen[/name], [name]Gypsy[/name])
[name]Ah[/name] well, hope that made sense. [name]Just[/name] an alternate viewpoint This is a really interesting topic! Would love to hear more opinions on this!
Um, I said that because I’ve LITERALLY seen in threads people use the excuse “they didn’t teach us about X topic in public school in Y state.” I think you’re missing the point…how can one person use that as an excuse and the same person from the same school system be in tune with a topic?
Its a fact - public schools in [name]America[/name] do not teach a wider variety of history the way other school systems do - just because thats where you received an education, its not an excuse to be culturally unaware.
I think some of you are right…it’s not so much that we’re BECOMING culturally dense, it’s that there is really no excuse this day in age. I do think that at one point in time you were largely restricted to what was spoon fed to you. But now? Not so much.
I think “place” names are in bad taste in general and [name]India[/name], [name]Jordan[/name], [name]Israel[/name], etc are good examples of why. Although all are seen as bonafide names, I think it’s best to avoid names that someone can view offensively down the road on a cultural level (not to mention how ridiculous it would ever sound going to those places later in life!). Although with [name]Israel[/name] it’s more like the country stealing the name…holy cow can you think of a more controversial word in many parts of the world?!
I definitley find names like [name]Gypsy[/name] way worse than place names, though…
I totally grew up with a guy named [name]Israel[/name]…it’s always struck me as super awkward. He’s in his 30’s now, his siblings have very traditional, biblical names. I have an aunt who is Jewish and was hidden and taken out of Germany during the Holocaust when she was 5 and grew up in [name]Israel[/name] until she married my uncle in the 70s, I believe (could have been later than that, their my great aunt and uncle, I wasn’t even around then) - well, growing up with my aunt, I just always found this guys name really…awkward, like - he’s a white American and what connection does he have to [name]Israel[/name]? I dunno, it never sat right with me, probably because I have such a close tie to the country.
[name]Israel[/name] was historically given as a first name by Jews for obvious reasons-- the poetic name of the Jewish people, the tribe of [name]Israel[/name]-- and nowadays to express solidarity with the modern nation-state of [name]Israel[/name]. Protestants have given the name sporadically since Puritan days, when biblical names and words experienced an enormous revival. Modern evangelicals give the name in accordance with their political beliefs (many believe the establishment of the nation-state in 1947 was predicted in Revelation, and they have a religious duty to support it) as well as a general fetish for Old Testament names.
I think the world is more global and more tolerant thanit has ever been in its history. I think if you survey the average American (or [name]Briton[/name], or Canadian, or Aussie) now you perhaps won’t get as much factual knowledge-- i.e. they won’t be able to tell you the capital and principal exports of [name]Bolivia[/name]-- but you really will find a tolerance and interest in other cultures that is unprecented. If you surveyed the average working man fifty years ago as to his attitudes on [name]India[/name], racial minorities, gypsies, whatever you would likely have gotten a stream of racist invective. Now, no way! Once people find out a name or a term is offensive, they try not to use it, and usually feel bad.
This is a really interesting topic! Would love to hear more opinions on this!