I think it flows beautifully, and I definitely like the meaning behind it.
I really like [name_u]Tempest[/name_u] [name_f]Alcione[/name_f] [name_f]Maeve[/name_f], it flows beautifully and I do like the meaning for you. I still think my favorite is [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_f]Apolline[/name_f] [name_f]Joy[/name_f], though. [name_f]My[/name_f] one qualm with [name_u]Tempest[/name_u] is that I think it’s a lot of name: not because it’s too obscure or hard to pronounce or anything, because it isn’t really, but because it has some very heavy imagery so it does feel very loaded. Again, not necessarily bad imagery, but strong imagery. You’ve already talked about that in your posts, of course, but I would say it’s the only thing that’s holding me back from fully and enthusiastically endorsing this combo.
I’m so fond of your [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_f]Apolline[/name_f] [name_f]Joy[/name_f]. I thought I’d seen [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_f]Apolline[/name_f] in your usercard some months ago and I just loved it. I’d been hoping to see her again. I’m drawn to compact, high energy names so I was happy with just the two, but now that I see her with [name_f]Joy[/name_f], it seems she is whole. She’s in complete balance. No name competes or diminishes another in space or meaning. I adore the way [name_f]Apolline[/name_f] holds the centre. She criss-crosses the ‘e’ and ascending ‘t’ from [name_f]Petra[/name_f] with the ‘o’ and descending ‘y’ from [name_f]Joy[/name_f]. It’s exquisite.
I can also see [name_u]Jule[/name_u] in place of [name_f]Joy[/name_f]. I like that very much, though it would make for a rather honour-heavy name with the three honours. I see this in two lights. [name_f]My[/name_f] mind first goes straight to the imbalance with H and A’s names, H in particular. The number of names given and the relative significance. But then I think, if you feel strongly about giving a girl two middle names and are going to do it either way, then both names being honours feels like the strongest reason to do so. It avoids the extra name from appearing ornamental. It’s possibly the last time you will name a baby of yours, so you pass on family names while you can. It doesn’t matter that one child received more than the others. They all have their own special naming stories and the family names and memories continue to live on in this next generation.
As an aside: Does the [name_u]Roche[/name_u] surname mean ‘little rock’ in your family’s context? The shared meaning with [name_f]Petra[/name_f] looks like a concrete link to that side of your family. It may not be apparent on paper alone, but it feels deeply rooted and the way to get there seems straightforward to me.
Also, I’ve been wondering if any of those criteria ratings led to a change or strengthening of your name direction?
I really like [name_f]Alcione[/name_f] with the kingfisher imagery, and I like [name_f]Maeve[/name_f]. I’m not sold on [name_u]Tempest[/name_u] as a name though. I think just because I’ve never heard it on a person, so it feels too much like a word. I can see it working on a girl, but only a grownup with a certain personality. [name_f]My[/name_f] favorites are still the two [name_f]Petra[/name_f] combos, although I do think the TAM initial honor is cute.
I had not thought of this connection before.
Yes. [name_m]Rock[/name_m]. I used to think the connection was a stretch but now I definitely see [name_f]Petra[/name_f] as an honor and I’ve sort of flipped that position and see it as rather straightforward like you do.
Interesting question. I have thought a lot about it this week in particular. I’m really trying to suss out the next best step. The highest ranking by far was the statement, “It is important that my husband love every individual name and the overall combination just as much as I do.” That is a tall order, of course, as it is for many couples (hence why Nameberry remains relevant continually with all these new posts everyday ). I do feel like I got some sort of order of importance from it overall. Particularly being able to say that having a good [name_u]French[/name_u] and Japanese nickname in mind is more important than a workable full first name (so [name_f]Minerva[/name_f] stays). I’m still thinking and feeling things through.
Tempest [name_f]Alcione[/name_f] [name_f]Maeve[/name_f] is hitting middle of the pack, I believe. I’m doubting myself at every turn but hoping maybe I’m pregnant so maybe it’s just my hormones and fatigue getting in the way. Or maybe not. I still don’t know which name I’ll post about this week…
Perpetua [name_u]Jule[/name_u], "[name_f]Petra[/name_f]"
I first heard the name [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] in [name_f]Bridget[/name_f] [name_m]Jones[/name_m]’ Diary as a child. I didn’t like the name for a long time but it has grown to be a favorite. I love the “perpetual” meaning. Enduring or everlasting definitely give me the “metal ox” imagery as she has a feeling of steadfastness and constancy. I like the association with the botanical “perpetual” flowers that are continuous bloomers, and with the concept of perpetual motion (like a perpetual motion machine, and also reminds me of the basic violin song “Perpetual Motion” that is a part of the Suzuki Method repertoire I learned as a kid). The meaning would definitely count as a “time/event” alongside her brothers. I like the idea of the last child being the one with the “enduring” name as our family hopefully continues on in perpetuity.
I’m not at all religious, nor do I consider myself a [name_u]Christian[/name_u], but I am not put off by the [name_m]Saint[/name_m] association. She seems like a good one and an interesting historical figure. I recognize that the name does ring Catholic in many ears, but I think it’s fine. I think that just comes with the territory of most rare Latinate names.
Just the quote today. You probably already know all this by now…
I think that if I’m going to use [name_u]Jule[/name_u] as a single middle, it has to be in a dynamic pairing like this. The name up front has to be much more distinctive (I can’t see [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u] or [name_f]Thisbe[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u] or even [name_f]Octavia[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u] working as well on their own), but I do absolutely love the idea she could be [name_f]Petra[/name_f] for short.
Perpetua [name_u]Jule[/name_u]’s meaning reminds me of the [name_m]Bob[/name_m] [name_u]Dylan[/name_u] song “[name_u]Forever[/name_u] [name_m]Young[/name_m].” I have very few happy memories with my biological father, but he loved to sing me folk songs (both old [name_f]English[/name_f] and Scottish folk songs as well as American ones) and [name_m]Bob[/name_m] [name_u]Dylan[/name_u]’s music was something we bonded over when I was a toddler. The song also makes me think of the nostalgia of family life as presented in the NBC show Parenthood, and also of the picture book narrative version of the song lyrics that I used to read with one of the little girls I used to nanny (H@rper).
I’m also always looking for a name that reminds me of “glimmering, glinting, gem-studded things” (a quotation from one of my favorite authors on the power of a rich vocabulary developed from reading aloud throughout a child’s childhood), which is just such a beautiful description. The [name_u]Jule[/name_u] (jewel) here paired with the light of a single taper candle gives off that reflective, glinting quality, too.
I wound up being a couple days late this week. I’ll probably wait until next [name_f]Tuesday[/name_f] to post as well and then may get back on track the following weekend.
Perpetua [name_u]Jule[/name_u] is lovely, and I adore the nn [name_f]Petra[/name_f]! I love [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] for you, regardless of the [name_m]Saint[/name_m] association, as it still has that lovely personal meaning for you! It doesn’t actually feel distinctly Catholic to me, as [name_m]Saint[/name_m] [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] isn’t one I’ve heard about too much. I agree though, [name_u]Jule[/name_u] needs to be paired with a distinctive first name, and [name_f]Petra[/name_f] feels just a bit too mainstream for [name_u]Jule[/name_u].
Love love love!
If I had to rank your combos so far, I would put [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u] first, closely followed by [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_f]Apolline[/name_f] [name_f]Joy[/name_f]. This one is relatively simple and meaningful but still exceptionally distinctive. I also love how the rhythm mimics her brothers’ names more than the 3-name combos.
Perpetua is my second favorite of your first names (with Olympias first) and I adore [name_u]Jule[/name_u] for you. I prefer your one-middle combos to your two-middle combos because they match better with siblings’ names (but I don’t think this is a particularly important criterion, just another bonus point for [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u])
I love that it’s a R0che honor name with the [name_f]Petra[/name_f] nickname. I love that it has the same gravitas as H and A.
And this fits perfectly for [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u]:
It’s sparkly and memorable, but still earthy and Metal [name_m]Ox[/name_m]. Like a single gemstone.
Is this weird to say? Probably. But I had a dream the other night that you used [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] “[name_f]Petra[/name_f]” so now I’m pretty sure I can predict the future
Perpetua is growing on me! I think [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u] sounds really regal and pretty. [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] also sounds just as interesting and grand as your boy’s names. And you get the best of both worlds by having the nickname [name_f]Petra[/name_f] for it.
Generally speaking, my preference would be the simple, crisp [name_f]Petra[/name_f] over the more regal, ancient [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f], but for your family, [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] does seem perfect in so many different ways. And [name_u]Jule[/name_u] is definitely my favourite honour name of yours.
Perpetua [name_u]Jule[/name_u] is a fantastic pairing! Not loving [name_f]Petra[/name_f] as a nn, though, personally. I like [name_f]Petra[/name_f] better on its own anyway, but it doesn’t quite feel intuitive here, imho. [name_m]Even[/name_m] so, this is definitely a great option for you!
Perpetua has really grown on me. It has a sparky feel - something bright and interesting. [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] [name_u]Jule[/name_u] is glowing and bold!
I’ve been following this thread, but not engaging for awhile, but I wanted to say that I really like [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f]!
I was on the [name_f]Rosmerta[/name_f] train, but I think [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] “[name_f]Petra[/name_f]” is my second favorite you’ve listed. I really liked [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_f]Apolline[/name_f] [name_f]Joy[/name_f], but I found there was something lacking in [name_f]Petra[/name_f]. It felt incomplete. As a nickname for [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f], I like it much better.
Jule isn’t my favorite middle, but it sounds really good with [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] and it obviously has a lot of meaning, so, this is my favorite combo so far.
I like these aspects so much!
I’m so glad it left this impression for you!
This is awesome! Idk how clairvoyant you are but you predicted the name of the week, so that’s cool in and of itself.
Ah, so much here resonates with me. Thank you so much for this analysis.
I’m glad that [name_f]Perpetua[/name_f] is growing on so many. It is such a beautiful name; she deserves some more love.
Oh the rest of the dream was full fiction crazy but I will still be impressed that I predicted the name this week.
Olympias Petra Maeve
I’m PREGNANT!!! 4 weeks so very tentatively optimistic but I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOOO EXCITED to post this week!!!
[Sorry I’ve got a cold so my voice is a bit off here]
Olympias has been the rising star of this year. Olympia was on my longlist previously, but she never got up very far. I love Olympe, but my partner never has. Yet, he started raving about Olympias as an option at the start of this year upon hearing a history podcast about the Queen:
She really was an amazing figure and a true bada**. Wife of Philip II and mother to Alexander the Great. Whether in order to wield political power against rivals who might otherwise underestimate her, to worship Dionysus, or just for kicks and giggles, she is said to have regularly slept surrounded by snakes in her bed. She was considered a spell-caster and a priestess of Dionysus. She did nothing to dispel these rumors about her. She regularly corresponded with Alexander during his military campaigns and offered strategic advice and reassurance. After Alexander’s death, she waged war herself against Adea Eurydice in order to secure her baby grandson’s place as heir. Thousands of soldiers defected against Adea Eurydice and refused to fight against Olympias’ army when they saw her standing in full majesty at the head of her army dressed as a follower of Dionysus (Maenad, like so, though this is not a depiction of Olympias).
Here are some depictions of Olympias for you, starting with some recently installed bronze statues at a fountain in the Macedonian capitol, which depict her during her various stages of motherhood (ostensibly pretty kitschy but I like them).
As portrayed by Angelina Jolie in the 2004 film Alexander, which I know I saw in middle school, but barely remember. I’ll have to rewatch it before I give the name to my daughter, but haven’t yet.
It seems to me that this name encompasses so many qualities I wish for my daughter: powerful, tender, intelligent, motherly, unyielding, magical, mysterious, ambitious, intense, wild, strategic, self-assured, unwavering, constant, formidable, carefree, eccentric, etc.
Alright, enough about Queen Olympias. This would also be for Olympe de Gouges to follow up the bada** feminist iconoclastic vibes from the name. I’d likely call her Olympe in French (which, my husband likes and approves of the name in French, just not in English and it isn’t one of those he feels comfortable saying aloud, so I’d get the best of all worlds in getting to use it on a regular basis).
Olympias is a solid metal ox name. Nothing says fortitude and presence quite like Olympias to me. It is strange because Olympia by contrast appears a bit generic, dainty, and timid. The final -s does SOOO much for me. It’s the hiss of the snake that completes it.
I love the connection to the cult of Dionysus. My mom is a D3n1se so to me there is a nice non-obvious connection.
As if I haven’t already made a case for the name as is, the most special thing about it to me is the timing. An Olympiad is a period of four years, based on an octaeteris (this is why Octavia is also on our list). As you’ve picked up by now, H’s name is about “happy time” and A’s name is an event, “resurrection.” Olympias would be the Olympiad, a period of 49 or 50 moon cycles (four years). What’s so special?
- If born full term, she will be born 49 moon cycles after H. This means that my marathon of childbearing and early parenting and adding to our family will draw to a close in this very special Olympiad for our family.
- H was born exactly 50 moon cycles after I first moved in with my husband (then boyfriend) and our relationship became serious. So she will be born marking the end of the Octaeteris of our early love and domesticity.
- OK, so I did time when we would start trying to conceive with this idea in mind (once I figured this out this May). However, one never knows when they will conceive or give birth and either way, I was gonna be off by a couple months at most as I knew we were ready to TTC again presently. However… there was one element I couldn’t plan at all:
- A was born and joined our family through adoption exactly 50 lunar months after our marriage on Leap Day 2016. So even the child who joined our family from another is forever linked to us through this measurement of an Olympiad.
- Did you catch that? My husband and I got married on Leap Day… that’s already a measurement of four years (or 49/50 lunar months). We literally chose to measure our anniversaries in four year increments. [I know there was an old Berry, @zennorhydrangea, who named her daughter Olympia for this reason as her daughter was nearly a Leapling].
** If born full term, she would be born right around the first or second full moon after the summer solstice, which was the original calendar for the Olympic games, and to top it all off, she will be born in an Ancient Olympic year (modern Olympics are off by one year cuz there is no year zero)… Except, oh, glorious 2021, another element I couldn’t foresee:
- The ACTUAL effing Olympic Games got rescheduled due to COVID and now they’ll actually match up with the ancient ones for the first time in the Modern era and my duedate is July 24 right at the start of the 2020/2021 Summer Olympics.
Random Olympics Fantasy that is relevant but less important
The really fun thing about the Olympics being rescheduled is that I literally used to fantasize (before kids) about having 3 kids spaced out like the Olympics. I’d have a Winter Olympics baby 2018, a Summer Olympics baby 2020 (29 month gap), and a Winter Olympics baby 2022 (18 month gap) in time for my 30th birthday. The Olympics is basically the only sporting event I watch (I do keep up on Figure Skating all the time, but other sports I only watch then), but I get really into it. I told my partner how much I wanted to be massively pregnant during each Olympics so I could have an excuse to laze around and watch all the events I wanted. Well, when time came to get ready to TTC we did 6 months of our planned 12 months of prep and then said, “eh… waiting to time for a March 2018 baby doesn’t seem very important.” I had literally been planning my first cycle TTC partially around the Olympics… decided not to… and here I am 4/5 years later and the Olympics caught up with me based on circumstance. I won’t get to watch nearly as much as I want to because… 3 kids, but ya know… it is living the dream in my own way.
OK, so just general things I like about Olympias:
- The prominent O starting it off to match and offset the ending -o for her brothers.
- The y. That gives her a unique “vowel” all her own. The o, i, and a she shares with her brothers and those are the ONLY vowels in their names, but she gets the special sometimes vowel to set her apart.
- The -s ending, which just feels so powerful, definitive, and distinctive. She feels both decisively feminine with the -ia and masculine like a Julius/Octavius type latinate -ius by ear. I love it.
- Like our boys, she’d almost always go by her full name, but as for nicknames… I’m in love with “Plum.”
- The gravitas. Girl’s got gravitas.
- The disctinctiveness of the name, but the recognizability and pronounceability based on the relation to the Olympics. I have chosen to give up this explicit criterion in naming (but it was a factor in Chrysanthemum’s naming) to consider how well my partner’s diasporic Chinese family would be able to recognize and pronounce her name. Everybody could pronounce it, I’m sure.
- The Mount Olympus imagery (oh yeah, we haven’t even gotten there yet): the mythology of the meeting place between the sky and the earth, the home of the gods and a meeting place of great power. A sacred, ancient mountain.
I don’t even think this is an exhaustive list of all the things I love about her. For months now I have been thinking THIS WILL BE ONE OF HER NAMES IF THE TIMING MATCHES UP. And it has. My body and providence have cooperated with my wackiness. Oh goodness how I yearn for this babe to make it here… It is very early days and I fear the very real potential of loss, but I just can’t NOT talk about Olympias any longer. I’ve already been stemming the tide for months here, holding her back so as not to jinx myself.
Olympias Petra Maeve
So, I love Petra Olympias Maeve as well (please let me know your preference if you feel it relevant), particularly for the cute initials POM (H’s first poem he could engage in in English was the refrain from Winnie the Pooh “Tiddley-Pom” and that’s what Pom reminds me of. I’m pretty sure @katinka posted about Pom as a name at one point on Onomastica… am I right? I’ll try to find it later). However, I think Olympias Petra Maeve could still go by “Pom” as a home pet name, and I HAD to lead with Olympias this week. I can’t hold it back!!!
So far this is the combo that I feel pulls on these notes of Petra best. Olympias as Olympus, strong, constant rock that does not erode easily or quickly.
Meanwhile, Maeve amplifies the magical, mysterious, swirling elements of Olympias. Her intoxicating warrior qualities definitely draw on the intensity of snake boss Olympias. Meanwhile, Petra with Maeve remind me of The Lorelei myth and rock (I haven’t been to Olympus but I have seen Lorelei). So all together, these names are super rock solid, but “murmuring,” intoxicating, spiritual. Basically the most magic rock mountain you could think of. That’s her.
I really look forward to hearing your impression of these names this week… more so than usual! On a high today… a high, high rocky mountain precipice overlooking a bright potential future for my family here… WDYT? Can’t wait to hear!
Olympias [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_f]Maeve[/name_f] is my absolute favorite for you. [name_f]Petra[/name_f] [name_f]Maeve[/name_f] is PERFECT for you, and Olympias just makes me starry eyed, it’s so lovely.
Ooh it’s gorgeous!!
I love Olympias with your boys on a purely aesthetic level: the length, the drama, the “ia” coordinating with the two “io” of her brothers without being obviously matchy. But reading all the reasons why this would be a special name to you makes me think you have to use this one. It’s truly meant to be!
Huge congratulations, by the way! I’m thrilled for you.