Gender and Names

General Name Discussion
1

Hey!
One of the topics concerning names I’m most curious about are the so called unisex names. I love many unisex names (I like to call them the orange names as they are seem here on Nameberry) and other names that are not seem as unisex but I prefer on the opposite gender.
People think this is too “celeb-like”. There are the kids named [name_u]River[/name_u] (both girls and boys); [name_u]Arlo[/name_u], [name_m]Lincoln[/name_m] and [name_u]James[/name_u] on girls, [name_f]Josey[/name_f] for a boy and so on… which makes it hard for me to set some boundaries (I mean, I do think a boy named [name_f]Caroline[/name_f] or [name_f]Isabella[/name_f] is too much). I watch a tv show called The 100 and one of the main characters, a girl, is named [name_m]Clarke[/name_m], and another main characters, a boy, is named [name_u]Bellamy[/name_u] (unisex name most frequently used on girls). At first, it seemed rather odd, but now I think they are perfect which makes me think it just takes some getting used to it! I never like [name_m]Clark[/name_m]/[name_m]Clarke[/name_m] on boys, but now I think it’s a great choice for girls!

So, what do you think? What do you think makes a unisex name? [name_f]Do[/name_f] you like a gender specific names on the opposite gender?

2

I think there’s a really annoying tendency (rooted in inherent misogyny no doubt) for “unisex” names to be perceived almost solely as masculine names on girls whereas feminine names on boys usually get frowned at.

But you know, gender is a social construct and I generally believe both gender and names are very fluid things.

3

I agree with shvibziks. My biggest problem with “unisex” names is the fact that it’s just boys names being “stolen” and put in the girl’s side. For example, naming a girl [name_u]James[/name_u] is seen as creative and breaking gender norms and sterotypes, while naming a boy [name_u]Ashley[/name_u] is seen as ridiculous because it has become too girly to go back to being a boys name.

4

I agree. I do think there is a double standard… It’s a shame, because I do think people are embracing boys names on girls but not so much the other way around… [name_m]Even[/name_m] some names that were primarily masculine!

5

[name_u]Ashley[/name_u] is a great example! In the past, [name_u]Ashley[/name_u] was a boy name that was “stolen” and put in the girl’s side. It became so popular for girls that it became odd for boys! [name_m]Even[/name_m] if in theory [name_u]Ashley[/name_u] fits perfectly with other popular boy names like [name_m]Asher[/name_m] and [name_u]Ashton[/name_u].
Other similar case, the one that really made me think about this double standard, was when [name_f]Naya[/name_f] Rivera had her baby boy late last year and named it [name_f]Josey[/name_f] [name_u]Hollis[/name_u]. People were saying it was totally a girl’s name because [name_f]Josey[/name_f] looked like a nickname for [name_f]Josephine[/name_f] and [name_u]Hollis[/name_u] was too similar to [name_f]Holly[/name_f]. I didn’t see it like that. [name_f]Josephine[/name_f] is a feminine version of [name_m]Joseph[/name_m] and [name_f]Josey[/name_f] could perfectly be a nickname for [name_m]Joseph[/name_m] as well (My brain thought of [name_m]Joseph[/name_m] right away and only realize the proximity to [name_f]Josephine[/name_f] when other people pointed it out). Also where I’m from [name_m]Jose[/name_m] is a pretty common name for a boy’s first name and for a girl’s middle name, so I guess you perceive name gender based on what you’ve experienced and people you know with those or similar names.

6

I think unisex names are great but like everyone else I think more boys need to be given traditionally feminine names.
Interestingly though, I do know a male [name_u]Ashley[/name_u]! And as I’ve never met a girl [name_u]Ashley[/name_u], it’s always seemed more masculine to me.

7

The question is, which traditionally feminine names would work well on boys? (Well, at least well enough to start convincing people) Because I do think it’s all about perspective and familiarity!

8
  • I think a unisex name is a name that, even if it started out being used exclusively on one gender, has been used a lot more on the opposite gender for a longer period of time.
    [name_u]Aubrey[/name_u] would be a good example, since the mid 70s, so for about 40 years, it has been a lot more popular for girls than it has been for boys; in no way does that make it a girls’ name but I do think that, at least in the States, it has become a unisex name.
    Other names that are orange on Nameberry are certainly not unisex to me, [name_u]Elliott[/name_u] and [name_u]James[/name_u] are boys’ names, have never been very nor more popular for girls, and until they get as much usage for girls as they do for boys and that for a longer period of time, they’re not unsiex names to me.
  • The only time this doesn’t apply would be with names that include -son (or any other pre- or suffix meaning “son”) as those names mean “son of” and always seem odd on a girl.
  • Any nicknames that can be short for either the male or female variation are unisex names to me, e.g. [name_u]Alex[/name_u], [name_u]Billy[/name_u]/[name_u]Billie[/name_u], etc.
  • English word names are also unisex for me, however, names like [name_u]Rio[/name_u], aren’t as they do have a gender in their original language.

I think it’s interesting that unisex names are more prominent in [name_u]North[/name_u] [name_u]America[/name_u], especially the USA, here in Germany, most names have genders and you can’t just use them on the opposite gender, and while I’m all for equality of genders, I’m quite happy we have that law as, and you can see that in the States, the underlying sexism of “boys are stronger” and giving girls’ boys names because they sound strong but not giving boys’ girls’ names, because they’re too soft, isn’t a problem.
But even in the UK where few naming rules exist, people still tend to go the classic route and not change the genders of names too much.
I wonder why that is the case?!

9

That’s an interesting point of view! I think you have a very realistic vision of what an unisex name is. An unisex name should be associated with both genders and I think that’s what fails to happen with lots of them.
I already thought about what you said about -son names, but in general, the meaning of the name. Perphas, [name_u]Ryan[/name_u] is #474 for girls and it means “little king”, it’s obviously masculine, although it seems that’s not relevant when people choose it for their daughters.
I don’t know anything specifically about the US, UK or Germany, but as an european (I’m from Portugal, we also have very strict rules about names and we’re deeply tradictional), I think europeans are more conservative when it comes to names and americans tend to be more “outside the box”, so maybe that’s it…

10

I think you’re right about the traditional part, though interestingly enough, many people from the South (USA), which are usually viewed as very traditional, choose boys’ names for the girls (and I never heard a girls’ name on a boy from there). I suppose we Europeans like it a bit more classic though if the naming laws didn’t exist, I think a certain type of people would go crazy with their children’s names.
I personally don’t view [name_u]Ryan[/name_u] as unisex, it has never been as or more popular for girls than it has been for boys but if it had and that for a good amount of time, I would view it as unisex as I’m less strict about names simply meaning something ([name_f]Charlotte[/name_f] means “[name_u]Free[/name_u] man”) or actually having the “son, etc.” visibly in the name as with [name_u]Addison[/name_u]'s “-son” or [name_u]Mackenzie[/name_u]'s “[name_m]Mac[/name_m]”.

11

@mccarolina / I too felt that it was insane that people were saying [name_f]Josey[/name_f] was too “girly”, when it is obviously a masculine name and those same people were most likely saying how “cool” it was for other celebrities to name their daughters [name_u]James[/name_u], [name_m]Wyatt[/name_m] etc. also agree with you about [name_m]Jose[/name_m]. I live in an area where [name_m]Jose[/name_m] is very common for males, so around here a boy named [name_f]Josey[/name_f] is no big deal.

As other berries have pointed out it seems to be societally acceptable to use a boy name for a girl but not a girl name for a boy. I take issue with that, and that is the main reason why I dislike boy names on girls.

I see truly unisex names as those found in nature, for me [name_u]Wren[/name_u], [name_u]Phoenix[/name_u], [name_u]Raven[/name_u], etc are unisex, as well as word names like [name_u]Haven[/name_u].

12

Like another person mentioned, any nickname name can usually swing both way. However, if we have to get the root of [name_f]Josey[/name_f], it would be [name_m]Joseph[/name_m]. Also, they got the name from The Outlaw [name_f]Josey[/name_f] [name_m]Wales[/name_m]. I think it is more “normal” than using deeply rooted boy names like [name_m]Wyatt[/name_m] and [name_m]Lincoln[/name_m] on girls.
Nature and word names are good unisex names indeed!

13

I already posted a screed similar to this topic on another thread, so I’m just going to copy and paste the relevant bits:

The thing with most of these “boy” names that were stolen by the girls is that they all follow a similar pattern. They were moderately popular for boys at one point, but then fell out of use, and then somehow, they were revived, but for girls. They were also never stunningly popular for boys, like say classic names like [name_m]John[/name_m] or [name_u]James[/name_u] were. Take [name_u]Addison[/name_u] for example. The highest it ever was for boys was 439 during the 1880’s. It went dormant around the 1930’s and sort of revived for boys during the 1980’s. It didn’t even make the girl’s top 1000 until the 90’s. [name_u]Madison[/name_u] follows a similar pattern. As does [name_u]Ashley[/name_u], and [name_u]Allison[/name_u], and [name_u]Lindsay[/name_u], and [name_u]Whitney[/name_u].

And then there are the names that were unisex back in the day, but weren’t completely unused for girls. The highest rating [name_f]Shirley[/name_f] for a boy ever attained was an average of 395 in the 1920’s, whereas [name_f]Shirley[/name_f] for a girl was #17 in the 1920’s. [name_u]Meredith[/name_u] at its peak for boys was 685 in the 1910s, but [name_u]Meredith[/name_u] as a girl’s name was also starting to become more popular during the 1910’s. After that, [name_u]Meredith[/name_u] kept going up for girls, but it tapered off for boys roughly during the 1940’s. [name_u]Kimberly[/name_u] was briefly on the top 1000 for males during the 50’s-70’s, but it’s always been exceedingly more popular for females. Next is [name_u]Evelyn[/name_u], where it briefly made the boy’s list in the 1900s at 951, but it has always, always been more popular for girls. In the 1900s, it was #38 for girls. So names like these weren’t technically what I would call stolen or commandeered. It just makes me want to rake my hands down my face whenever people try to paint it like they were always exclusively male and the girls stole them. There’s nothing to take back.

I got my numbers for here, by the way. It takes on a very US-centric view of the name timeline, but it’s still a good resource: Pregnancy, Parenting, Lifestyle, Beauty: Tips & Advice | mom.com

My ranting aside, you can’t exactly control naming patterns or the way society at large will perceive the name you choose for your child. While I do agree that society is becoming more tolerant of odd name choices, I think it depends on a lot more factors than just reclaiming a name that may or may not have been very popular for boys at a far flung point in the past. Also some names, especially recently trendy ones have only recently started to tilt toward girls. [name_u]Rowan[/name_u] for example has frequently been neck and neck for boys and girls, with it being in the 200s for the former and in the 300s for a girl currently. So it’s actually more popular for boys right now, which is a surprise when the NB description says it might have traditionally been an exclusively feminine name. So take that for what you will, but maybe that’s evidence names can be tilted in favour for boys. Masculine names like [name_u]James[/name_u] and [name_u]Aidan[/name_u], which people have oh so trendily started to bestow upon girls have never even entered the top 1000 for females, so just because one celebrity names their girl [name_m]Wyatt[/name_m] or [name_u]James[/name_u] or [name_m]Maxwell[/name_m] and we hear about it doesn’t mean that the whole world is making the same decision. My theory is that we hear about it, think it’s unusual, so therefore it’s more likely to stick in our minds afterward, even though the numbers say that for every female [name_u]James[/name_u], there are dozens more Emmas.

That was more so in response to someone specifically saying certain names were hijacked away from the boys, but the basic sentiment is still there. [name_m]Long[/name_m] story short, just because it’s orange on Nameberry doesn’t mean it’s evenly unisex, or even unisex at all by most peoples’ standards.

[name_m]Just[/name_m] in general, I think most nature names could swing both ways (even though people perceive flower names as feminine), because it’s just a name from nature. A river isn’t masculine or feminine to me. However, culturally speaking, in languages where the words are gendered, that might affect someone’s view of the name. There’s a lot more that goes into it for some people, but I will say that the general public probably doesn’t care that much about name meaning or how the name was traditionally used.

To me, a unisex name is one that’s truly neutral. It’s right about even in the ranking for both genders, and no one gender has any more claim to it more than the other. So using a name that’s been traditionally masculine since the dawn of time like [name_m]Clarke[/name_m] for a girl doesn’t make it unisex just because one television character has the name.

Obligatory statement about how gender is just a construct and people can name their kids whatever they want

Sorry for the novel ^-^‘’’

14

All I wanted to say is I agree with many of the sentiments expressed here and I appreciate when it can be talked about without chastising anyone. I told my mother about my plans to have a son named [name_m]John[/name_m] [name_u]Ellis[/name_u] [name_u]Michael[/name_u] “[name_u]Jem[/name_u]” and she flat out told me that [name_u]Ellis[/name_u] was a girl’s name. That I was “setting him up for a life of being made fun off.” (I did reiterate that it’s just his middle name sigh. But [name_u]Ellis[/name_u] is a boy’s name and since future hubby is American, I thought it would be a nice nod to that since his family came through [name_u]Ellis[/name_u] Island, their names are even on the wall for goodness sake! But no, it’s apparently a girls name, we’re using it anyway, I’ve loved it forever.

15

@vestigesofsummer Loved to read what you had to say and I totally understand and agree with it!

16

I think [name_u]Ellis[/name_u] is one of those that truly is an unisex name! I know both girls and boys named [name_u]Ellis[/name_u]! And if you look at it, [name_u]Ellis[/name_u] is currently more popular for boys than girls (in the US), despite people like your mother thinking it is a “girl”'s name (maybe she only met girls named [name_u]Ellis[/name_u]?)

17

Hmm I think [name_f]Jessica[/name_f] would work well as [name_u]Jesse[/name_u] is a familiar boys name. Also [name_f]Lauren[/name_f], with the similarities to [name_u]Laurie[/name_u]. Maybe [name_u]Artemis[/name_u] too, considering the [name_u]Artemis[/name_u] Fowl book series.