Really need of some help regarding my daughters name. I’m in love with [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] that’s staying but again I’m encountering issues with her name I need to make the whole name easier for her (and me) so turning to you guys for guidance.
To be honest I think her surname is the issue. It’s just tooooo much her surname is Oryang-Ramage. Oryang is a Ugandan name so of course needs to spelled out to everyone. Ramage is a Scottish/Irish name that everyone in south east [name_f]England[/name_f] struggles to wrap their heads around. In total when talking to people I have to spell out three names which people struggle to understand so it honestly takes 10 to 15 minutes going over her name before even being able to discuss what needs to be discussed it’s just so much effort. I’m worried that I’m finding the whole experience long after 6 months how is [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] going to find her whole life with this.
When I was pregnant as you berries know I was in a really difficult predicament her father [name_u]Joseph[/name_u] (my ex) wasn’t going to be involved. However he has done a complete u turn he’s an amazing father & partner to me stating that he had a mental breakdown when he found out I was pregnant & he is ashamed of his behaviour etc. If he had been like he is now during the pregnancy she would just be [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang. [name_u]Joseph[/name_u] has been brilliant since [name_u]December[/name_u] 2020 my daughter was born 3.2.21.
We are back together but even if anything was to change in the future I wouldn’t mind her just being an Oryang as I know [name_u]Joseph[/name_u] will always be an amazing dad to [name_f]Lilia[/name_f]. They have a brilliant bond.
I hyphenated my surname because I faced a lot of pressure from my family to do so. [name_f]My[/name_f] father is a proud man and wanted his grandchild to be a Ramage (he’s obsessed with this) and a lot of family do not like [name_u]Joseph[/name_u] as a result of his treatment to me so demanded I hyphenated her surname. At the time of registering her birth I was pro hyphenating her surname. I think at the time I didn’t contemplate the challenges of having two rare names as one surname. I also didn’t realise how challenging the general public would find [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] as a name by herself. I thought [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] was relatively self explanatory but obviously not
Anyways I’ve been giving [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] name some thought including looking into changing her name. As a name I prefer Oryang (pronounced Oree yang) over Ramage (pronounced like damage with a R) I think [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang is really pretty and would make her life easier. However I’m so worried about offending my Dad/upsetting my family. I also don’t want to just use Ramage as I know it’ll offend [name_u]Joseph[/name_u]. I also really really prefer Oryang as a surname. I’ve never liked my surname it’s very easy to rhyme etc. I haven’t spoken to anyone about this everyone still thinks I’m pro hyphenated surname which currently I’m not but I’m so worried about the backlash. I was then thinking maybe have three middle names & have Ramage as the third middle name so dad isn’t offended. But then I don’t know if [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] [name_f]Elizabeth[/name_f] [name_f]Ella[/name_f] Ramage that would work?
Help! How do I talk to my family about it? What shall I do? Shall I just keep her name as it is and deal with a lifetime of continuously explaining it along with [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] doing it? Ahhh I’m so stuck as right now I hate how long & difficult her name is
[name_m]Hi[/name_m] by the way I adore your daughters name so much! So I also have two surnames and they are very rare. I live in the UK but my mom is from [name_f]France[/name_f] and my dad is from [name_u]Ireland[/name_u] so I have 2 very uncommon surname’s. What I do is that i have both names on my passport but when I’m introducing myself ect.I only go by my first surname it sounds like [name_m]Lawless[/name_m]. I did have to spell it out a lot but now all my friends and most people know how to spell it
Your daughter could do the same thing as me and have [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang Ramage on her birth certificate but only go by [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang or [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Ramage when introducing herself.
I think you should keep Lilia’s name as it is because it’s so beautiful. [name_f]Hope[/name_f] this helps
This is your daughter, and all your father has to do is to accept your choice about her name. A family is more than a surname, it’s the connection what matters not what her name is. Go with what you think is right for your daughter :)
Sorry I forgot to mention about your father, in the end it is your child and her name. If you change her name to [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang I’m sure he will eventually get used to it if you explain to him that you just want the best for your daughter and having her spell out her name constantly is difficult and stressful. You do what you think is right for your daughter🤍
I think putting one of the surnames in the middle name spot sounds like a good solution.
I’m not sure if you would want to keep both current middle names as well, but if that feels too much for you, I also think [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] [name_f]Elizabeth[/name_f] Ramage Oryang has a really lovely natural flow.
As for your dad, if it’s so easy to change someone’s surname where you live, she could also simply add it on as an adult if she want to.
Honestly I read through your post and never once did InseenYOU wanting to keep Ramage for Lilia or you or Joseph but more wanting to appease your father. So going off that my advice is as follows:
Drop Ramage completely.
I would avoid the three middle name thing. That seems like something only for the royals or for those with an over the top reason to do so and I’m not sure how Lilia would feel having to explain that one
You said: I think Lilia Oryang is really pretty…, I agree! And I think at the very least in time I think Dad will understand especially if you present the difficulty to him as you did to us.
I would probably not change her name but just introduce her with the one surname if thats an option. When shes older she can decide if she just wants to go by both, or just one socially, or change her name.
Alternatively I would move your surname to the middle spot with some modifications to the middle names. I understand how families can get weird about surnames and I don’t know if you want to get into that by dropping your surname completely.
I like that her having both surnames allows her to be both [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang around her dad or his family if she meets them regularly or by [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Ramage around your side of the family. Both feel “correct” with a hyphenated surname.
That’s not really an option though. If you register your child anywhere you need to give its official name.
@tori101 I understand it’s difficult to stand up to your father, but this is about your daughter and you both as her parents, not about your father or anyone else. Using Ramage as a second middle name sounds like a good option.
As Lilia already has 2 middle names, I don’t think you should move Ramage to the middle spot, unless you are dropping one of the middles (maybe Ella as that is from his side).
I think you should do what you want to do and what you think is best and stop worrying about what other people will think. It’s your child, not your dad’s. He will either accept your decision and support you or he won’t and in that case if his own pride and ego is going to get in the way of your relationship or his relationship with his granddaughter then he is the one missing out.
I personally wouldn’t move Ramage to the middle name. You don’t seem to like the name at all, and once again, my opinion is that you should name her what YOU like, and not worry about doing things jus to avoid offending someone else. But also three middle names just seems a little over the top, and how often would the entire full name ever get used anyway? It’s almost better to just not use Ramage at all than to have it almost tucked away and hidden in a spot where it’ll never be used.
I grew up with a friend who had a hyphenated surname, but very few people knew about it. Think along the lines of Farthington-Smith (example). Everyone knew about the Farthington part of as he used it daily, but he only added the [name_m]Smith[/name_m] part for legal documents.
It’s alright to use one or the other daily while keeping the second of the hyphenated names for legal documents. He never denied having a hyphenated name, but it was easier for him to use only one of the names for everyday life while still ensuring both are important enough to have and use. This may be an option for you as well.
Before the era of mobile phones, I use to have my name written out on a small business card… that’s all that was on the card. I would carry it into somewhere people didn’t know me (such as a new doctor’s office, for example) and show it to them when they wanted my legal name spelled out. They could read it from the card.
Now I just have it on a note on my phone that I pull up and let them copy from that or I offer to write it on the form for them.
It sounds like it’s been a very trying experience for you. It’s understandable that you’re looking for ways to reduce the stress.
By the looks of it, there’s no solution that doesn’t come with some amount of pain. It’s weighing up whether the short term pain, especially the family tension, is worth the long term improvement in your experience as a parent.
That might sound as though I’m leaning in a certain direction but I’m aware many people have names that are unfamiliar in their community or difficult for other reasons. The best decision for one person might be to change the name in part or in full. The best decision for another person might be to persist through the challenge and adapt their response. It’s an individual experience.
That is to say, I wouldn’t try to predict what Lilia’s individual experience will be. Instead focus on the stress it’s putting you through as a parent and what you need to do to manage that. The most pain is often in not making a decision at all. [name_f]Hope[/name_f] you find something that works for you.
I absolutely agree with @ethelmary. [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] is your daughter, and I think in your heart you know what’s right for her. I’ve often found that family will come around, even if your choice upsets them. And matching surname isn’t what makes a family, love does!
I think you should share with your family how difficult you’re finding spelling and sharing her name with people and emphasise that you’re not changing it as any sort of slight to them, but because you want to make her life easier.
If it helps, since my parents weren’t married when me and my brother were born, we both had my mum’s surname until I was eight when she and my dad got married. Our names were then changed to my dad’s surname and my nan found that quite difficult. At the time, she commented that it was better when we had my mum’s surname and occasionally asked us if we missed having that surname. This was all twelve years ago and she hasn’t mentioned it in years and years. I think even if your family are offended at first, they’ll get over it - especially if they know you’re doing this to make your daughter’s life easier
@Emma_Elle111 thank you so much for your feedback and positively surrounding my daughters name! Thank you for sharing about your own personal experience how does this work when checking in at A&E for example? Or registering at a doctors surgery? This is where I’m encountering a lot of my issues and surprisingly there’s been a lot more visits to hospital/doctors then I ever thought there would be. Do you just introduce yourself with the one surname or use both?
@ethelmary thank you so much you are indeed correct it’s just challenging when your family struggle to see it like that.
@OpheliaFlora thank you for responding. I didn’t tell Joseph my thoughts regarding her hyphenated surname but I asked him how attached he was to Ella and he said that the name means a lot to him due to the connection to his mum so I don’t think Ramage as a second middle name considering both Lilia & Elizabeth honour my family would work
It’s true Lilia could just add the name on!
@Alix2016 you are 100% right honestly I just hope my dad will understand in time and won’t be too hurt I think maybe if I go down the practicality side of things he will understand hopefully Thank you for answering
@cactusgram thank you for your positivity surrounding Lilia Oryang sounding pretty
@hellobanjo thank you for your feedback I like the idea of using just introducing her with one surname but my concern is in relation to legal stuff it’ll be hard. I dunno honestly so confused as to what to do for the best but your definitely selling the plus side of a hyphenated surname having the best of both worlds!
@Rosebeth thank you for responding it’s really appreciated
@kmdharrington thank you I don’t think dropping [name_f]Ella[/name_f] will work unfortunately and I agree I think three middle names could be a bit much
@Emarkulics thank you I agree having three middle names is a lot and it’s true about just hiding Ramage to satisfy Dad just seems a bit pointless. I suffer with anxiety become of this I am a major people pleaser as I have anxiety about upsetting people which is definitely my issue. But it’s true everything your saying is true with the name Ramage & my dad.
@shells15 thank you for responding and sharing your own experiences! I love the business card idea [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] would be so sweet with her own business cards
@kachenka thank you so so much you always show so much kindness to me and it’s really appreciated!! Naming lils has been challenge I think more so because my pregnancy was stressful and was happy that I actually found a name that made everyone else happy that I forgot about the general public and how challenging it could be. Ahhh feeling a bit stuck I hope I can make a decision soon too
@hannahwren thank you for responding and your response was lovely!
@Greyblue thank you for responding and I think I may talk to mum see what the general response would be etc then I can properly think about it
I’m not familiar with A&E but registering for doctors surgery or anything like that I ask them do you want my full name or just the name I go by. They usually only ask for the name I go by so I would only give one of my surname’s. That is in the UK though so it might be different where you live.
@tori101 I forgot to mention in my last post but when or if you enroll [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] into school she or you can chose whether she wants to be enrolled as as [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang Ramage or just [name_f]Lilia[/name_f] Oryang. I decided to just use one surname and now basically nobody knows that I have two surnames. When/if you do get a passport for her you will have to use her full name so anything legal you will probably have to put in whatever is on her birth certificate.
Thank you for answering
