Honoring people that aren't honorable

General Name Discussion
1

I’ve seen others voice similar concerns here and there so I thought I’d create a topic.

Lately I’ve been thinking about family honor middles a lot and I keep running into this problem: With almost every family member, I can think of something that I wouldn’t want my child to be named after. Overheard them talking badly about “the poor”/“the gays”/ …, or they cheated, it seems like there’s always something. And now I’m wondering…

Is my family (and my partner’s likewise) just not honorable and I can’t use family names for that reason?
[name_f]Do[/name_f] I ignore those things and focus on positive aspects of those people should my future kids ask who they’re named after?
[name_f]Do[/name_f] I look deeper into the family tree for people I haven’t met? But I have no reason to believe they were better, really, I just wouldn’t know it.
If I base my naming decision on who hasn’t done anything bad yet, and they turn out horrible later, have I played myself?
Since I want to honor the concept of family rather than the individual people anyway, is that enough to remove the name from the negative associations?

How do other people do this? What part am I overthinking?

Anyway, in case anyone has answers, additions, or simply the same problem, I’d love to hear your thoughts :slight_smile:

2 Likes
2

If you want to honor the concept of family I would look for names that embody that concept to you. Maybe names that mean love, honor, help, togetherness whatever it is that you think family is.

Obviously no person is perfect but I wouldn’t use a family members name if I didn’t respect them at all. There’s no need to use any honor names if that’s the case.

Personally I would consider using an honor name not to mean that the person was “honorable” but more that they were an important positive influence on my life and it’s only a nod of remembrance, and a bit of shared name history for my child. Not an award or endorsement to the person whose name I used.

8 Likes
3

If they aren’t honorable I obviously think you should not honor them.
But maybe for some of them you can forgive their mistakes or still see them as overall a good person and then those people might still be honorable.
A solution could be to look into surnames from your family tree or family names used more often, as those are less tied to one person and more to your family in general.

2 Likes
4

Hmm, this is a tough one. For using direct honours, I think you have to decide whether the negative associations you have with those family members outweigh the positives. Otherwise, I’d suggest using family surnames so to avoid naming after specific people

2 Likes
5

It’s difficult to provide answers because we all have different family experiences and values that shape our naming choices. From the sounds of it, you have a distinct idea in your mind about what an honour name should be, but reality unfortunately isn’t compatible with that. It’s disappointing to experience that.

I wonder if you’re now thinking about whether to hold onto that original concept of an honour name or adjust the concept–to broaden it, dilute it or reframe it. Does this ring true at all? I think it would be hard to adjust your approach to honour names at first. For instance, you may still be grieving the lost idea and what it represented. You may not feel as pleased by the remaining options. You may feel there’s no one blanket rule that applies evenly across your family members.

I think it’s also worth noting that a name can mean different things to the parent bestowing the name and child who receives the name. [name_f]My[/name_f] middle name is in remembrance of my grandfather who died decades before I was born. [name_f]My[/name_f] mother had her own relationship with him and it was important to her to use it for her own reasons. I’ve learnt as an adult of some unfavourable issues relating to my grandfather. However, I haven’t felt that it has tarnished the name at all because the name represents more than the person. It represents my mother’s wishes, my heritage, it’s tradition and it connects me to my family tree in a tangible way. It feels meaningful to me even though I don’t have a personal relationship with my grandfather.

I’ve also felt what it’s like to be on the other side. I recently had a serious falling out with a relative I’d long thought I’d honour with an honour name. This person is very important to me, but we are both deeply hurt and reconciliation does not seem likely in the foreseeable future. I was looking through my name list after the event occurred and it struck me that I could no longer use those names. It wouldn’t feel right to me and I don’t think it would feel right for that person either. If the event had happened after I’d named my child, I think it would still be meaningful but it would carry a slightly different message. Perhaps something about loving and respecting family even though it can be difficult. It would remind me of our relationship prior to the issue and while that would be bittersweet I think I could accept that.

I think the above is separate to remembering a regretful behaviour or aspect of a person. There are always mistakes and criticisms to find if we look for them. They do not end when we get older, although many of us learn from our past mistakes and don’t continue making the same ones. I don’t think you have to accept a behaviour to be at peace with it. If I am at peace with the past, I would consider honouring that family member.

It’s clear you’ve given this a lot of thought. I think you have a lot of great ideas about where you could go from here. I think you’ll find your answer in due time, you might just need to try out some of these new approaches to honour names and see how they feel.

5 Likes
6

There’s no such thing as a person that hasn’t done anything bad. Humans are fallible, every single one of us makes mistakes. Assessing whether or not a person is honorable is about looking at the sum of their parts. If you want to use honor names, you’re going to have to keep that in mind, because if you come at it from the angle of “only people who are 100% honorable all the time”, no human being is going to make the cut.

2 Likes
7

Most of my honourees are on my list because of who they are to me and their importance in my life. They are also deceased.

For those that are living, they are people who I want my children to emulate the good qualities of, and I want the good qualities to outnumber the bad. I have a couple I’m debating right now, and one that has been removed from my honourees’ list entirely as I couldn’t wrap my head around their complete disregard for other people (myself included).

I can’t tell you which direction to go, but, in your place, I would honour the concepts of what you want your kids to emulate (love, charity, your idea of family, etc.) and choose names that match those meanings. Also, take a step back from your list of honourees for a time and reevaluate your criteria for honourees. If they don’t live up to what you want then, or their worst qualities outweigh their best qualities, then I would choose someone or something else.

If you want to honour where you are from without honouring anyone specific, you may look at using surnames or names based off of surnames or even location names.

2 Likes
8

I think it’s completely okay to feel this way about your family. I feel the same about some of mine, and I blame it on a lack of education and awareness on their part. Yet, there’s a difference between being a horrible person & purposefully not caring, compared to plain ignorance. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide the criteria of an honor name.

When naming a child, the honoring part should come from the heart. If a family member has helped you in a profound way, or if they have loved you unconditionally, I would say it’s worth the honor. Again, it should come from your heart, and not forced. [name_u]Honor[/name_u] names aren’t required, they’re just a lovely detail.

Unfortunately, nobody is perfect. [name_m]Even[/name_m] if that person ends up doing something disagreeable down the line, it doesn’t take away from the reason you honored them in the first place. In the words of [name_m]Sirius[/name_m] [name_m]Black[/name_m], “The world isn’t split into good people and death eaters. We’ve all got both light and dark inside of us.”

3 Likes
10

I’ve got a bit of a problematic family (haven’t we all) and, as @Lilsibubs suggests, I asked my two best friends at the time to each give my son a middle name. Many years on and I am no longer close to either of them, we just grew apart. A child’s name is a bit of a time capsule - it marks what you loved and what was important to you at the time with the knowledge and insight you had then.

It feels to me that you aren’t over thinking and you’ll find a way of using an honor name that you are happy with (if you end up using any at all). If you’ll be becoming a parent with another person, they may have some excellent honour options on their side too :slight_smile:

Random thought - there was a post I read here on NB the other day about a baby named [name_f]Omie[/name_f]. I love how this means grandma yet could also be a nn for [name_f]Naomi[/name_f], for example. That could be a way of honouring the concept of family without more specifically honouring a person.

3 Likes
11

If a person in my family did outright harmful things, then I wouldn’t use their name. But I would consider honouring a family member who made mistakes but was overall a good person, because nobody is perfect. It’s easy to believe negative things about a certain group of people if society has been feeding you those views all your life, and you don’t know anyone who belongs to that group on a personal level.

Where I live, it’s fairly common for parents to use their own name as their child’s middle name. It sidesteps having to honour other family members who you might have a complicated relationship with. But ultimately there’s no need to use honour names if you don’t want to.

1 Like
13

If I don’t want to honour a specific person, I usually try to find a name in my family tree (from their side of the family) that speaks to me.

1 Like
14

Without going into unnecessary detail, I have such a complicated family dynamic that I personally wouldn’t choose to honour anybody. And if I did it would most likely cause a rift of jealously and bitterness from the other side of the family either way. Instead I would be open to honouring people who aren’t related to me who have touched my life in an important way, but most realistically I prefer to use names of people who’s art and work has inspired me and that means so much more to me personally. I’ve considered using the likes of [name_f]Frida[/name_f] and Korine (for [name_f]Frida[/name_f] [name_u]Kahlo[/name_u] and [name_u]Harmony[/name_u] Korine, who’s works have an important influence on me) and I have a few others up my sleeve too.

1 Like
15

Also I want to add that if you wanted to honour your family without choosing one specific person, picking a surname from your family tree can also be a good option

16

Thank you for all your answers! I’m sorry it took me until now to get back to it.

@hellobanjo looking into names that mean family is a good idea! to me, middle names were always to use the name of a family member, maybe it would do me good to broaden my horizon on this a bit.

That’s also something I need to keep in mind.

@Johannaa I agree forgiving is important. It’s not always on me to decide if something is forgivable - for example the cheater is still out because he ruined two people’s childhood and that would have to be their decision. (Which is a shame because his name is kind of cool.)
I’ve already tried to look into family surnames! So far unsuccessfully but I like the idea and am motivated to look further.

@Greyblue

I agree. But it’s so hard to do!

@kachenka Thank you for sharing the story of your own honor name. It’s reassuring to know you still don’t despise it, so maybe my child won’t despise being named for someone who did something wrong, either. Also thank you for the other side of the story - I’m still as unsure what to do but I loved hearing that others have similar struggles.

@Inlakesh Of course nobody is perfect. It’s important to keep that in mind. [name_f]My[/name_f] thoughts were more like this: Is the first thing I think about when I hear the name good or bad? And if it’s good, but the bad associations are still present enough to make me ask that question, is that enough to step back from the name?

@shells15 It’s good to know others have similar thoughts to mine. I’m also wondering if maybe the bar is lower for people I’m related to because being named after family members seems so standard to me, while for me to even consider using the name of a friend, they’d have to be super awesome? That would probably be unfair and I should reevaluate it…

@VioletMoon Thank you for your kind words. And for reminding me I can’t hold people born and raised in the Third Reich against 21st century moral standards. Maybe my own grandchildren will one day find me unhonorable too just because times change?
I don’t feel required to use an honor name, at least that part I’m confident in. I’d just really love to, because I love having one myself.

@Lilsibubs I don’t know if a list can decide that, it should come from the heart. But maybe a list can help me find out what my heart really wants?
Further down the family tree it gets boring fast :confused: I’m afraid those would all just feel like old classics rather than family names. I will look into honoring friends further though!

@EdgeOfTheMeadow

That’s a lovely thought. :slight_smile:

I’m so sorry but that made my partner laugh out loud :sweat_smile: He thinks even worse of his family than I do of mine and on top of that, he likes neither honor names nor middle names in general!
I believe Omi(e) would be hard to wear, but the general idea of names with a family relation as a meaning is intriguing! If I come up with someone I want to honor but don’t like their name that might be a solution.

4 Likes
17

part two:

@choupette Unfortunately both my names are already used several times in the family and my partner doesn’t want his used either. Maybe I really just need to take a step back for a while and stop looking for problems.

@katkabet Placenames are a good idea! [name_f]My[/name_f] partner’s hometown would even work as a name I think (he isn’t convinced though because it has no history of use), but it’s definitely something to look into further!

@OpheliaFlora I really need to dig into my genealogy deeper. So far I’ve mostly found extremely common names, and the further down they are, the less they feel like honor names.

@enwmn

I hadn’t even thought about that. Maybe people who demand to be honored and start fights if they aren’t shouldn’t be honored anyway, and if they throw a tantrum that’s more ridiculous than sad, but I guess that’s easy for me to say because it’s just theory for now. Once I’ve actually caused a rift in the family I might not think it’s funny after all :grimacing:
Surnames are also something I’ve thought about (and there’s one that’s really cool) but usability might be an issue.

1 Like
18

each side of my family doesn’t really like the other as is so I think I’m going to just avoid family honours completely… I know tantrums are ridiculous but I’m related to some very ridiculous petty people haha

1 Like
19

I was thinking about [name_f]Uma[/name_f] and its relation to the word [name_f]Oma[/name_f] (grandmother) that could be a subtle option too

20

I like the idea but I’m afraid the proximity to the word [name_f]Oma[/name_f] actually makes it harder to wear. Like she might be teased with how [name_f]Uma[/name_f] looks like [name_f]Oma[/name_f], and if [name_f]Uma[/name_f] was the name of a deceased family member maybe saying “it’s after my aunt who is dead” (or even just “it’s after a Hindu goddess”) could stop the teasing. But if she has to say that it was chosen because it looks like [name_f]Oma[/name_f]? I feel like I wouldn’t be doing her a favor.

21

That’s so interesting I can’t imagine kids picking up on the connection but it probs depends on the area and the languages spoken