international girls's names x international boys' names in the SSA list.

General Name Discussion
1

Hey guys! I was looking into the SSA list, and one thing caught my attention. While I was checking the boys’ popularity list, I saw many clearly ethnic names in the top 1000. As for girls, most names that were once tied to a specific background lost that ethnic feature, and are now in widespread use. I wonder why is that. I mean, why a clearly italian name like [name_f]Isabella[/name_f] was so widely embraced by parents who got no italian background, but an equally italian name like [name_m]Lorenzo[/name_m] is still being used mainly by italian parents? Why are girls’ names more likely to become “internationally” used, while the same does not happen in the same degree to boys?

While looking at the SSA list for girls, I can’t really know how many of the following babies actually have links to the background their names come from:

1-100: [name_f]Isabella[/name_f], [name_f]Sofia[/name_f], [name_f]Layla[/name_f], [name_f]Aaliyah[/name_f], [name_f]Gabriela[/name_f], [name_f]Camila[/name_f], [name_f]Arianna[/name_f]/[name_f]Ariana[/name_f], [name_u]Genesis[/name_u], [name_f]Bella[/name_f], [name_f]Sophie[/name_f], [name_f]Mila[/name_f], [name_f]Annabelle[/name_f], [name_f]Gianna[/name_f], [name_f]Eva[/name_f]
100-200: [name_f]Maria[/name_f], [name_f]Brielle[/name_f], [name_f]Isabelle[/name_f], [name_f]Natalia[/name_f], [name_f]Liliana[/name_f], [name_f]Eliana[/name_f], [name_f]Valentina[/name_f], [name_f]Clara[/name_f], [name_f]Elena[/name_f], [name_f]Isabel[/name_f], [name_f]Laila[/name_f], [name_f]Gabrielle[/name_f], [name_f]Angelina[/name_f], [name_f]Juliana[/name_f], [name_f]Adriana[/name_f], [name_f]Elise[/name_f], [name_f]Josephine[/name_f], [name_f]Ximena[/name_f], [name_f]Alexia[/name_f], [name_f]Valeria[/name_f], [name_f]Izabella[/name_f], [name_f]Luna[/name_f], [name_f]Lila[/name_f], [name_f]Julianna[/name_f], [name_f]Fiona[/name_f]
200-300: [name_f]Giselle[/name_f], [name_f]Keira[/name_f], [name_f]Alexandria[/name_f], [name_f]Emilia[/name_f], [name_f]Arabella[/name_f], [name_f]Lola[/name_f], [name_f]Leila[/name_f], [name_f]Genevieve[/name_f], [name_f]Gabriela[/name_f], [name_f]Daniela[/name_f], [name_f]Adrianna[/name_f], [name_f]Leilani[/name_f], [name_f]Amaya[/name_f], [name_f]Ana[/name_f], [name_f]Lucia[/name_f], [name_f]Camille[/name_f], [name_f]Alina[/name_f], [name_f]Anastasia[/name_f], [name_f]Danielle[/name_f], [name_f]Lilliana[/name_f], [name_f]Erin[/name_f], [name_f]Annabella[/name_f], [name_u]Arya[/name_u], [name_f]Vivienne[/name_f], [name_f]Daniella[/name_f], [name_f]Miriam[/name_f], [name_f]Elliana[/name_f], [name_f]Juliette[/name_f], [name_f]Noelle[/name_f], [name_f]Alessandra[/name_f]
300-400: [name_f]Bianca[/name_f], [name_f]Yaretzi[/name_f], [name_f]Lilah[/name_f], [name_f]Fatima[/name_f], [name_f]Kiara[/name_f], [name_f]Nyla[/name_f], [name_f]Alondra[/name_f], [name_f]Giuliana[/name_f], [name_f]Alicia[/name_f], [name_f]Nadia[/name_f], [name_f]Amiyah[/name_f], [name_f]Malia[/name_f], [name_f]Eloise[/name_f], [name_f]Mariana[/name_f], [name_f]Myla[/name_f], [name_f]Briella[/name_f], [name_u]Sierra[/name_u], [name_f]Gia[/name_f], [name_f]Briana[/name_f], [name_f]Talia[/name_f], [name_f]Heidi[/name_f], [name_u]Carmen[/name_u], [name_f]Lucille[/name_f], [name_f]Kamila[/name_f], [name_f]Arielle[/name_f], [name_f]Karina[/name_f], [name_f]Lia[/name_f], [name_f]Maliyah[/name_f], [name_f]Esmeralda[/name_f], [name_f]Catalina[/name_f], [name_f]Nayeli[/name_f], [name_f]Janelle[/name_f], [name_f]Camilla[/name_f]
400-500: [name_f]Elle[/name_f], [name_f]Sarai[/name_f], [name_f]Alejandra[/name_f], [name_f]Vera[/name_f], [name_f]Francesca[/name_f], [name_u]Sasha[/name_u], [name_f]Carolina[/name_f], [name_f]Ariella[/name_f], [name_f]Itzel[/name_f], [name_f]Anya[/name_f], [name_f]Viviana[/name_f], [name_f]Cataleya[/name_f], [name_f]Jimena[/name_f], [name_f]Guadalupe[/name_f], [name_f]Annabelle[/name_f], [name_f]Amira[/name_f], [name_f]Elisa[/name_f], [name_f]Rebekah[/name_f], [name_f]Celeste[/name_f], [name_f]Karla[/name_f], [name_f]Janiyah[/name_f], [name_f]Anaya[/name_f], [name_f]Imani[/name_f], [name_f]Maeve[/name_f], [name_f]Lilian[/name_f]
500-600: [name_f]Lorelei[/name_f], [name_f]Nia[/name_f], [name_f]Aniya[/name_f], [name_f]Fernanda[/name_f], [name_u]Amari[/name_u], [name_f]Lilyana[/name_f], [name_f]Luciana[/name_f], [name_f]Kaliyah[/name_f], [name_f]Zariah[/name_f], [name_f]Annika[/name_f], [name_f]Gloria[/name_f], [name_u]Zuri[/name_u], [name_f]Elsa[/name_f], [name_f]Johanna[/name_f], [name_f]Aryanna[/name_f], [name_f]Angelique[/name_f], [name_f]Tatiana[/name_f], [name_f]Tiana[/name_f], [name_f]Dayana[/name_f], [name_f]Helena[/name_f], [name_f]Danica[/name_f], [name_f]Dulce[/name_f], [name_f]Anika[/name_f], [name_f]Emilie[/name_f], [name_f]Anabella[/name_f], [name_f]Liana[/name_f], [name_f]Aisha[/name_f], [name_f]Leia[/name_f], [name_f]Anahi[/name_f], [name_f]Elyse[/name_f], [name_f]Amara[/name_f], [name_f]Natasha[/name_f], [name_f]Samara[/name_f], Daleyza, [name_f]Melina[/name_f], [name_f]Amani[/name_f], [name_f]Marina[/name_f].

Some of those names are international variations of existing English names ([name_f]Helen[/name_f], [name_u]Marian[/name_u], [name_f]Emily[/name_f], [name_f]Mary[/name_f], [name_f]Jane[/name_f], [name_f]Jade[/name_f], etc), and some are completely international names with no standard English version. However, with some exceptions, most of these names are widespread enough for parents with no ties to the culture of its origin to use it without worrying about it looking too “ethnic”.

A girl named [name_f]Lucille[/name_f] can have 100% irish roots, as can [name_f]Elena[/name_f], [name_f]Annika[/name_f], [name_f]Lucia[/name_f], [name_f]Luciana[/name_f], [name_f]Ariella[/name_f] and so on, and their names are seen as international enough.

The same does not happen with boys’ names. While looking at the list, I saw many names with a clear ethnic origin:

1-100: [name_m]Jose[/name_m], [name_m]Xavier[/name_m], [name_m]Luis[/name_m], [name_m]Juan[/name_m], [name_m]Carlos[/name_m]
100-200: [name_m]Jesus[/name_m], [name_m]Mateo[/name_m], [name_u]Elias[/name_u], [name_m]Santiago[/name_m], [name_m]Antonio[/name_m], [name_m]Giovanni[/name_m], [name_m]Diego[/name_m], [name_m]Leonardo[/name_m], [name_m]Alejandro[/name_m], [name_u]Gael[/name_u]
200-300: [name_m]Omar[/name_m], [name_u]Luca[/name_u], [name_m]Jorge[/name_m], [name_m]Amir[/name_m], [name_m]Eduardo[/name_m], [name_m]Francisco[/name_m], [name_m]Javier[/name_m], [name_m]Lorenzo[/name_m], [name_m]Josue[/name_m], [name_m]Ricardo[/name_m], [name_m]Fernando[/name_m], [name_m]Mario[/name_m], [name_m]Marco[/name_m], [name_u]Andre[/name_u], [name_m]Rafael[/name_m], [name_m]Emiliano[/name_m], [name_m]Emilio[/name_m], [name_m]Dante[/name_m]
300-400: [name_m]Angelo[/name_m], [name_m]Sergio[/name_m], [name_m]Roberto[/name_m], [name_m]Romeo[/name_m], [name_m]Joaquin[/name_m], [name_m]Malik[/name_m], [name_u]Ali[/name_u], [name_m]Maximiliano[/name_m], [name_m]Ruben[/name_m], [name_m]Enrique[/name_m], [name_m]Esteban[/name_m], [name_m]Gerardo[/name_m], [name_m]Armando[/name_m], [name_m]Ismael[/name_m], [name_m]Pedro[/name_m]
400-500: [name_m]Pablo[/name_m], [name_m]Raul[/name_m], [name_m]Rodrigo[/name_m], [name_m]Muhammad[/name_m], [name_m]Rocco[/name_m], [name_m]Mohamed[/name_m], [name_m]Adriel[/name_m], [name_m]Alberto[/name_m], [name_m]Yahir[/name_m], [name_m]Uriel[/name_m], [name_m]Thiago[/name_m], [name_m]Alonzo[/name_m]
500-600: [name_m]Arjun[/name_m], [name_m]Alfredo[/name_m], [name_m]Moises[/name_m], [name_m]Arturo[/name_m], [name_m]Mekhi[/name_m], [name_m]Carmelo[/name_m], [name_m]Nasir[/name_m], [name_m]Ahmed[/name_m], [name_m]Mauricio[/name_m], [name_m]Gianni[/name_m], [name_m]Aldo[/name_m], [name_m]Isaias[/name_m], [name_m]Moshe[/name_m], [name_m]Mohammed[/name_m], [name_m]Orlando[/name_m], [name_m]Matias[/name_m], [name_m]Ahmad[/name_m], [name_u]Dominik[/name_u], [name_m]Mohammad[/name_m], [name_m]Salvador[/name_m], [name_m]Luka[/name_m], [name_m]Nikolai[/name_m], [name_m]Vihaan[/name_m], [name_m]Luciano[/name_m], [name_m]Ramon[/name_m], [name_m]Raphael[/name_m]

I’m almost certain that the majority of the babies born with those names have ties to its ethnic/cultural background. I would assume the little [name_m]Pablos[/name_m], [name_u]Elias[/name_u], Santiagos, Muhammads and Giovannis were hispanic/muslim/italian/etc, which people wouldn’t assume if they met a little [name_f]Lucia[/name_f], [name_f]Ariella[/name_f], [name_f]Isabelle[/name_f] or [name_f]Luciana[/name_f].

What I’m saying is, having an [name_f]Isabella[/name_f] [name_m]Smith[/name_m] even though you do not have a drop of italian in your blood is something very usual that would not raise eyebrows. But having an [name_m]Alejandro[/name_m] [name_m]Smith[/name_m] with no hispanic heritage is something way more unusual. In the foruns, I see people suggesting all kinds of international girls’ names, but when it comes to boys, the international suggestions are usually irish/german/scandinavian, and that’s it. [name_f]Alessandra[/name_f] is a pretty name for everyone to use, but [name_m]Alejandro[/name_m] is too latino for most. What?

Was I clear? Did you guys understand my point, or was I just rambling?

Why do you think this happens? Why are girls’ names seen as more internationally appealing, while international boys’ names are, in most cases, seen as too ethnic?

Anyway, sorry for the long post and for grammar/spelling mistakes. Please, correct me if there are any. I noticed the girls’s in the title when it was already too late. lol.

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I wouldn’t say [name_f]Isabella[/name_f] was ‘clearly Italian’ since it’s incredibly common in many countries and has been used in the English-speaking world for hundreds of years, which gives it more history and usage as an English name than a name like [name_m]Lorenzo[/name_m] which has had little usage and is still considered a foreign name. Yes, its origins are not English, but then you’d be hard pressed to find more than a handful of truly English names in the SSA list.

As for there being more international girl names (used & suggested), I think this is largely due to parents being more original with girls’ names than with boys’. I reckon this is the crux of it. People take more of interest with girl names- that’s clear from the number of posts in the girl names forum here, and from the number of signatures I see where there are only girl names listed. Whilst many people put a great deal of thought into a name for a daughter (and come up with ‘exotic’ names like [name_f]Vivienne[/name_f] and [name_f]Francesca[/name_f]), they may be content with just [name_u]James[/name_u] or [name_m]Tom[/name_m] for a boy. So as more unusual/foreign girl names have gradually become commonplace, the boy names have lagged behind.

I’d blame people’s infatuation with having beautifully named daughters rather than a vendetta against foreign male names :stuck_out_tongue:

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I could be completely wrong, but I’ll just say what I think. I think girls are given a lot more freedom to decide who they want to be than boys. A girl can be a girly girl or a tomboy and there isn’t much concern; consider how names are more likely to go from male to female rather than female to male. Here are some quotes from Good or Bad, Baby Names Have Long-lasting Effects | Live Science

So, there’s already some freedom that girls have in the naming process and potentially less reprocutions for going outside the box. If it is more acceptable for girls to carry a name that is/was commonly used by boys, then it makes sense that they would also be more flexible about names that belong to another culture. Also, many people just give their daughters a name that sounds pretty and don’t consider where it is from.

Additionally, there may be more pressure for boys to carry on family traditions and culture than girls. I’ve seen more traditions of boys carrying a certain name across generations than girls, whether that be [name_m]Joe[/name_m] [name_m]Smith[/name_m] VII or naming every first son [name_m]George[/name_m]. In general, males keep their name throughout their lives while women lose their maiden, use the maiden as their middle, or make the maiden their second middle. Maybe this leads to males being given more names that tie back to family and culture than women.

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@kakin - You should probably take that guy’s studies with a grain of salt; for example that study about boys with “feminine” names was restricted to one school district and the period of time leading up to and when they entered middle school. That’s like observing the temperatures of one city at one time of the year and using that to conclude the effects of climate change.

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Namefan, I’m aware of that and I know correlation doesn’t equal causation. I wasn’t trying to say that the results are necessarily true just that it shows there is a bias in favor of females having more freedom in naming. When different girl names were mentioned (female vs. male) the result was one was better in humanities and the other in the sciences. Neither of those is a bad result. With boys, having a girl name was associated with bad behavior. Who knows why he found those results. It could have been a variety of things including bias by the researchers or bullying. [name_m]Both[/name_m] I feel would suggest that boys names, like boys themselves, aren’t as flexible in society as girls names. If people feel that they have to stick with the norm for their boys and not the girls, they don’t take the same risks in naming.

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I also noticed there is a lot of subjectivity on what you’ve classified as an “international” name - and the list may balance out more with a different person’s definition. For example I see you have [name_f]Erin[/name_f] and [name_f]Maeve[/name_f] on the girl’s list - to be fair on the boy’s list you probably ought to also include names like [name_m]Ronan[/name_m] and [name_u]Rory[/name_u] (similarly Irish but usable on non-Irish babies in the eyes of a typical American). And names like [name_u]Genesis[/name_u] aren’t really “ethnic” (if anything a lot of the mid-range-in-usage Biblical names common for boys like [name_m]Emmanuel[/name_m] and [name_m]Ezekiel[/name_m], which once again you didn’t include, would have more of an “ethnic” flavor).

Another factor is that some of the “international” girl’s names are feminine forms in which there isn’t a “purely Anglo” one (while there is for the root male name) - e.g. [name_f]Daniela[/name_f]/[name_f]Daniella[/name_f]/[name_f]Danielle[/name_f] and [name_f]Gabriela[/name_f]/[name_f]Gabriella[/name_f]/[name_f]Gabrielle[/name_f].

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I wasn’t trying to discredit your main point - but rather when I dug deeper into that study (I don’t have a link right away, but I looked at the actual paper he wrote on it) I found those limitations on the conditions he performed it under (which I didn’t know if you were aware of or not). Yes I do have a feeling he’s one of those with a “unisex name bias” favoring them for girls and opposing them for boys, and has performed/reported his studies to try and express that.

8

yes, I have included [name_f]Erin[/name_f] and [name_f]Maeve[/name_f] because they seem more irish rooted, but I forgot to do the same with boys, mostly because with some male names it’s hard to draw a line. I included [name_u]Genesis[/name_u] because one poster in NB said it’s one name that is very common in the hispanic community, almost exclusive. But yes, of course subjectivity may interfere in my view of a foreign name, as I’m not from the U.S, so I included some names that are common in portuguese speaking countries - [name_f]Daniela[/name_f] and [name_f]Gabriela[/name_f], e.g - and sometimes seen as foreign variations. But yeah, now I see how those feminizations don’t have a “pure” anglo form - my fault -, but anyway, you can get the point even though some names I listed can be debated. And as for [name_m]Emmanuel[/name_m] and [name_m]Ezekiel[/name_m], I think these are their actual names in the english-translated bible? In portuguese, it is [name_m]Emanuel[/name_m]/[name_m]Manuel[/name_m] and [name_m]Ezequiel[/name_m]/[name_m]Esequiel[/name_m], so I always thought those variations were the standard english ones.

I think it just adds to my original point: it’s harder to draw that line when it comes to female names, while it’s usually way clearer when it comes to naming boys.

One thing I think may interfere is that some female names have similar variations in lots of cultures. [name_f]Maria[/name_f] and [name_f]Nina[/name_f], e.g, have roots in portuguese, spanish, and also in slavic languages, while male variations tend to differ more. I don’t know if it makes sense.

Like you, I don’t think it has something to do with a vendetta against male foreign names, I was just curious because it is harder, as you stated in your comment, to define a clear ethnic origin to many of the female names that are not of “anglo-saxon” origin, but for boys, it’s usually easier to know which names are foreign and which are not.

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I didn’t think you were. I was just afraid that I didn’t come across very clearly.

This article mentions briefly about something I brought up earlier (I was too lazy to actual check out the research they used for this one): Baby Names: How Babies Get Them And Why They Matter | TIME

10

I highly recommend the book “[name_m]How[/name_m] the Irish Became White” if you’re interested in the trajectory of cultural assimilation within the United States - which, of course, has clear ramifications for what names become acceptable to use by whom and when. Frankly, I would tie the fact that recognizably Latin@ names are not given as often to children with non-Latin@ heritage as often as names like [name_f]Maeve[/name_f] or [name_f]Mia[/name_f] to, yup, racism.

11

I think it has a great deal to do with American stereotypes of other cultures. [name_m]French[/name_m], Italian, Spanish names are seen as romantic. Something Americans like for their girls but not for their boys.

12

In my opinion, most given names in the US are international, it’s simply that boy’s names are not immediately recognized as such. [name_m]George[/name_m] and [name_m]Bill[/name_m] are just as Greek and [name_m]German[/name_m], respectively, as [name_m]Konstantinos[/name_m] and [name_m]Bernhard[/name_m]. Their roots are in the same place. [name_f]My[/name_f] question would be why parents seem to prefer older names in the family tree for girls, but more recent, Americanized versions for boys.

13

Not really. [name_m]George[/name_m] and [name_m]Bill[/name_m] are English names, with Greek and [name_m]German[/name_m] roots. [name_m]Konstantinos[/name_m] is Greek and [name_m]Bernhard[/name_m] is [name_m]German[/name_m]; they’re different. It’s like saying Seán is just as Hebrew as Yochanan.