We went traditional in using my husband’s last name as our family name. We are having a boy next month and decided to break from tradition and not name our son the same name as my husband (who is named after his father). We chose a name we both love and are really excited about even though it has no familial meaning.
Now we are stuck on a middle name. I want to use my father’s name. My husband wants to use his own name. My totally logical argument is that the first name is neutral, last name is his family’s, so why can’t the middle name come from my family? He says that since he isn’t using his name as the first name (which he doesn’t want to do anyway), it should be the middle name. I think it’s unfair that my family isn’t reflected at all in the name if he gets his way. It almost makes me want to go back to my maiden name out of spite, which is such a horrible thought.
Am I being too technical about the fairness of the name? I haven’t brought it up again and thought I would wait until after or even during delivery when my husband might be a little more willing to concede…
Also, I emphatically do not want to use two middle names. To me it dilutes the meaning and significance of honoring the namesake, which is the whole point of a middle name for us.
Hmmmm, I think I’m going to have to call in [name]Solomon[/name] to resolve this one. It sounds as if you WANT to use your husband’s last name and for your whole family to share the same surname, correct? Which kind of evens out the fact that he WANTS to break with tradition and give your son an indie first name rather than following tradition and making him a III.
So you’re really approaching the middle name on equal footing, which I think is what makes this so difficult – you made a name change/concession for him, he made one for you, even.
The good news is that you’re both capable of major name compromise for the sake of family unity and happiness. But with this middle name issue, you’ve kind of created a no-win situation if you say the name MUST honor a family member but that you can ONLY use one name. By that reasoning, one of you is going to “lose.”
So my first choice for you would be to loosen the rules and either use two middle names (toss a coin to decide who goes first) or come up with a middle name that honors a hero or principle you both hold dear.
If you’re really going to insist on the one-name honorific rule, I think the middle name should be your husband’s name. He’s the baby’s father vs. grandfather, so that trumps, plus the name honors both him and his father, so two close honorifics vs. one. Sorry, but there you have it.
HOWEVER in return for that concession, I’d wring a pretty serious concession out of him regarding your next child’s name, i.e. you have final choice on first and middle names, and he’s not allowed to complain about it.
I think I have to disagree with [name]Pam[/name]. Your first sentence alone says “We went traditional in using my husband’s last name as our family name”, which to me sounds like it was a discussion between you and your husband, and together you made the decision for you to take his name. Many people don’t see the weight behind a woman dropping her surname because it’s “expected”. I think that if you feel like you made a sacrifice dropping your name for the sake of the family, then you should be able to honor your side of the family with the middle name.
Whether or not you and your husband stay together (depressing thought, I know) your child will have his family surname.
And it’s not just a matter of who made concessions. It’s about representation. His family is represented in a big way. Last names are important! My family gets 0 representation if we use his name for the middle. Seems like the name is stacked pretty heavily towards his family with nothing coming from my side. Why can’t each side have something?
Similar situation in our home, main difference is my father passed away and I want to use t as a middle, but husband is concerned this will offend his father. Our children carry their fathers(and grandfathers) surname and our son shares my husbands middle name. Obviously there is good representation on his side and I am made to feel guilty for wanting to honour my father somewhere? Patriarchy is strong with many men and I have no clue how to temper it with reason, good luck in your situation.
Personally I think since you have to go through the birth and carry around the 10 pound baby you should get your way, but that’s just me.
Like you, I’m not a fan of two middles, but in this case, it might be the best solution. You don’t want your marriage to fall apart due to naming a baby. If you plan on having more children, then you can always tell him he has to wait till the next child comes along.
Honestly, I don’t understand the whole “the baby will have his surname so that means I should be able to use the name that I want” arguement. I got married when I was 28 (so I had my maiden name well into adulthood) and took my husband’s surname when we got married. Never once in the two years that we’ve been married have I thought of the surname as being “his” or “mine”. It’s ours. We’re now expecting our first child in a couple weeks and while we’ve argued over names, the surname factor has never come into the discussion. Your child isn’t going to view their last name as being your husband’s surname. He’s going to view it as his own surname and the last name that his family shares (which, obviously, includes you). The fact that you’re saying that you feel insignificant and unimportant (and considering going back to your maiden name) makes me think that there’s something deeper going on here besides just disagreeing over a name.
As for the middle name issue itself, I agree with [name]Pam[/name] that some kind of deal needs to be struck. If you end up using a family name from your husband’s side in the middle, then the next baby should get a family name from your side in the middle (or vice versa). That, to me, only seems fair. And I wouldn’t wait until delivery to bring this up again because you’re hoping that your husband will be more willing to concede. Labor/delivery is a very emotional time for everyone and you wouldn’t want to have your husband agree to something when he’s under a great deal of emotional stress, just to have him regret it later and resent you for it (I mean, if the situation were reversed, would you want you husband waiting until a vulnerable moment to try and convince you to make a major life decision?).
If this is really that big a deal to you, then drop the first name that you both love and use a family name from your side. 1 first name is at least equal to 1 middle name + one last name, right?
However, I agree with [name]Pansy[/name] that the last name should not be considered “his.” Your husband didn’t get to choose that name, and it’s silly to insists that it’s the only name he gets to contribute. If you can’t compromise on the middle, I’d do what you did for the first name and select something completely different, the month of your anniversary, a location of significance, that sort of thing.
The surname argument is a big deal to a lot of people because it’s always the woman who take the man’s surname. If it wasn’t an issue, than why doesn’t the man take the woman’s last name? OR why not pick a whole new last name, after all you are starting a [name]NEW[/name] family? In a way it’s seen as a form of sexism and patriarchy. Basically the woman’s only option is to either keep her last name or take his. The man hardly ever agrees to taking hers or coming up with a new one.
The reason I gave up my last name is because I don’t have the best relationship with my family and thus no attachment to it, plus my husband would not agree to a new last name because he didn’t want to give up his last name (another reason surnames are a huge deal, it’s part of your identity). And the main reason was because I wanted us all to have the same last name since we are indeed a family. So as a compromise for taking his last name, I get to pick the names of our future children, however, he has veto power. Also, we aren’t into the whole honoring/tradition thing, which makes our situation less problematic. Our children will all have unique names.
Exactly this. If it’s OUR last name, why not pick a new one solely for our new family unit. Once a woman takes her husband’s name anytime she says her name she is associate with his family. Their child will be associated with his paternal grandparents rather than both sets of grandparents. I have an amazing relationship with my maternal cousins and family, but since I have my father’s name people think “Oh Arthur’s granddaughter”, not “Jay and Alyce’s granddaughter”
As I said before, if for some sad reason this marriage ends the baby will have a name that is no longer a unifying name for everyone.
I do not have a good relationship with his family. The reason being that he himself does not have a good relationship with his family. They don’t seem to like him very much (which might be why he wants to please his family with a name).
We are infertile and conceiving this child was a long shot. All this talk about naming the “next child” actually kind of stings a little because I don’t know if it can/will happen so I can’t bank on that.
As for the “his name” vs. “our name”…yes. Our last name is “our” last name. But again, it is a representation of where he comes from. It comes from him even if it is “ours” now. I would like something to come from my family as well. Then it will be “ours” just as much as his last name is ours.
And for those who think there is a deeper problem, maybe there is. And that problem is that I am kind of annoyed with the patriarchy involved with naming a child. I think it is useful and easy for a family to share one name. Less confusing. So we went with tradition on that one even though parting with my own name was hard for me. I just feel as though where I come from is getting erased because of nothing more than outdated traditions.
Another solution is using my maiden name as a middle name, but he has emphatically said no to that.
I like my reasoning! [name]One[/name] name comes from his background. [name]One[/name] name comes from my background. And one name is new to our new family. It makes so much sense in my mind that it is really helpful and enlightening to hear from those who disagree.
Okay, so this is possibly your only child. I can understand why your husband would want to use his name as a middle for your son–this might be his only chance to do so. But you also want to use a name from your side. Also understandable. Then I definitely think compromise is in order. I know you said you don’t want to middles, but that seems like the best compromise, and it wouldn’t dilute the meaning of either names. It would just mean that your son would have names that are important to both of his parents. When I have children, they will likely have two middles.
As for the surname thing… I don’t understand why his surname is even an issue. It feels like you’re concentrating too much on sides–his side vs. your side. It’s a family name, and it’s the one you two agreed on. I wouldn’t even figure the surname into the debate.
I kept my maiden name, but our 3 beautiful children have my husband’s last name (and I refer to it as our family name). BUT my arguement is the same as yours. Their last name represents his family’s lineage, and I need representation as well. My 2 daughters got my paternal grandmother’s name and my mother’s name as middles. My son’s middle name is my husbands first name…this was important to him and fine by me.
So, when I gave my husband my arguement for swaying middle names towards my family, he totally understood.
Good luck! And you’re also right, in that it may be a much easier discussion after the baby comes along.
Why isn’t the child’s surname a factor? For many people, a last name, like a first name, is a huge part of ones identity, especially if it has cultural or ethnic significance. This is an entire website devoted to names. I’m surprised that people wouldn’t think that all names carry weight and significance. Why shouldn’t the last name it be part of a discussion about how you choose to name your child even if it’s already been decided on? Yes, we agreed on in, but it was after much discussion about what it meant to me to part with the name I have worn all my life and it hurts that it is so easily forgotten.
People always talk about “carrying on the family name” by passing it down through a boy. So it is already a HUGE part of the tradition to take something from the male side and pass it down generation after generation. Does anyone really believe that a husband’s family surname is somehow new to a new family? I just want to pass something on too!!
I guess it is a personal thing, but I am sort of surprised by how lackadaisical people are about surnames. I always think of them as the most important of all! I’m not asking to choose the first name and I agreed to take his last name for my own and give it to our children. Those are the biggies, the first and last! I’m just asking if we can draw from my family for the middle to honor the people with whom we are closest.
People keep suggesting the two middle names. I’m not sure I have a reason, but it is just something I really don’t care for. I’d rather give my child one middle name or no middle name or something new to us even if it is not the one I would prefer.
Maybe then no middle name is the answer. Obviously there are a lot of deep and important issues at play here, both personally and culturally, but even though I’ve devoted my entire career to names, I truly believe your family is more important than any name. To turn this into a battle that actually threatens your marriage doesn’t make sense. I guess you both feel that you made a huge concession – you in giving up your surname, him in giving up his patrilineal name – and so you both feel you have rights to the middle name. Understandable, yet definitely not worth divorcing over. I hope you can come up with a creative solution to this one that you both can live with (but may not be either of your first choices).
I just thought of an idea, why not combine his name with a name on your family side, for example if you want [name]Joseph[/name] and he wants [name]Caspar[/name], then why not [name]Jasper[/name]? You could also do a hyphenated middle name or just don’t do one at all!
I loved being able to change my name when I got married, so I don’t have the same emotional reaction to surnames as you do/did. But I can understand that some women feel very differently from me about that.
Is there anyway you could honor both sides with one middle name? I’ve seen some great ideas of how to do things like that on this website. If you post the two names you guys are debating, then may be you could get some ideas of ways to make them into one name that honors both sides.
Personally, if this is so divisive, I think I’d drop the idea of honoring and just go with a middle that you both agree on that isn’t a family name. But I basically dislike the idea of honoring anyway, so that’s easy for me to say. What is your husband willing to do? Is he willing to drop the idea of honoring all together? Or is he saying that it’s just his middle or nothing. I’m kind of surprised that he won’t agree to using your maiden name for the middle, since that seems to be pretty common among my friends.
Or, I know this is an extreme idea, but any chance you’d both be interested in changing both of your last names to a double last name that includes both of your surnames? I had friends in college who did this. When they got married, [name]John[/name] [name]Doe[/name] and [name]Sue[/name] [name]Smith[/name] became [name]John[/name] [name]Doe[/name]-[name]Smith[/name] and [name]Sue[/name] [name]Doe[/name]-[name]Smith[/name]. I liked that idea, and was impressed that her husband was willing to do that. I’m sure it would cost some money, but it may be worth it in your case.
I understand the last name argument. I’ll take my fiance’s name when we get married. He’s said that he’d be a tad hurt if I didn’t take it because to him that’s the best thing he can give me, its a physical sign of his love and commitment. However I’ve told him I’ll have issues getting rid of my last name. It’s uncommon, it’s been my name for 18 years. To help with it he’s been using his last name in reference to me trying to get me used to hearing it and answering to it. Its weird to know that it will be gone. The only solution I have if I want to keep it is to make it a middle name. And I’m not sure if I want to do that. DH will never change his last name. In his job his last name is the only name he answers to. So there is no convincing him to change it.
I see where you’re coming from but I have no suggestion other than don’t use a middle name or give him two middles. Good luck and I hope everything works out.
Well, if not two middles, then I agree with [name]Pam[/name]. Maybe no middle is the answer. But I also like catloverd’s suggestion of combining the two names. You could also ditch the idea of honoring relatives and come up with something that honors the child’s birth or place of conception–a place name, a seasonal name, a name that relates to his astrological sign or something. There are many ways to find a compromise on this. Good luck!