Open discussion: Usability

Girl Names
1

I’ve been on many a naming forums, and my final question always comes down to what is actually usable. People always post the names they love, and often they are exotic, long, and rare beautiful names that very few have heard of outside of name forums. If you tell someone their name is unusable they take personal offense and immediately disagree informing you that it is a legitimate name with history and meaning! So much passion. Now, I am 100% guilty of this and have had to evaluate myself and my gut reactions lately which has led me to hopefully have this discussion with other name nerds. My perspective has completely changed now that I am due in a matter of weeks with my first child (I have been a name nerd since high school.)

Have the names that most of us swoon over, ever really been usable?

[name_f]Guinevere[/name_f], [name_f]Andromeda[/name_f], [name_f]Isolde[/name_f], [name_f]Anouk[/name_f], [name_f]Fleur[/name_f], [name_f]Arwen[/name_f], [name_f]Amaryllis[/name_f] (my list) have never been in the top 1000 ever.

I had to sort of take a step back and analyze my choices and ask myself two questions:
1.) Am I giving the world too much credit? These names are ultimately unheard of and do I want my child to be the first most people meet? Am I expecting a judgemental world to accept something unfamiliar? [name_f]Do[/name_f] I want to test this on my child?
2.) Have I been too judgemental on those who have chosen popular and trendy names?

I have been the one to scoff at the amount of [name_f]Isabella[/name_f]'s there are. I have always assumed parents just didn’t do enough research before picking a name. Now I understand that sometimes choosing the path less traveled can be terrifying when you’re actually choosing it for your child and going with something beautiful but popular is easier.

These are just some of the thoughts I have been having since I spent so many years picking names for hypothetical children, and now that I have a real one ready to come into this big, scary world it is so different. I feel almost like a hypocrite and that I have betrayed my name nerds. I’ll be naming my daughter [name_f]Talia[/name_f] [name_u]Quinn[/name_u], a very different choice from anything I’ve ever had on my lists.

I’m interested in hearing other’s thoughts and opinions about this. Is there a confirmation bias on naming forums? I think so. Is this doing a disservice to expecting moms who seek out advice on names and name nerds offer up out-of-this-world suggestions? Can a name only be usable when it has “nickname potential?” What do you think?

2

Funnily enough, I was thinking about this a couple of days ago.

My daughter has a first name I wouldn’t have picked had I picked it entirely myself; its far to popular. For me, the use of a unusual nickname is the main reason I kept it. But in reality, it has some advantages. Nobody ever mishears or misspells it, nobody ever tells me its odd. She might be one of a few Amelia’s in life, but in the end, its a pretty name that ages well, and she won’t have any issues with.

Looking at my name list for the child I’ll hopefully be adopting, I was surprised at how many of the rarer ones I would have said I preferred before that I’m now getting rid of as I don’t think, in day to day life, they are actually any good for a person. I’m no longer thinking of only my personal preference, but of how it will affect my child.

Having said that, I think most of the names on your list are perfectly usable. I think Guinevere is familiar to most people from Arthurian legend, Isolde will be familiar to a fair few from legend too, Anouk and Fleur are both very popular in other countries. Amaryllis is a popular flower, so as a name its rare, but not as a word. Andromeda and Arwen, again though rare, are easy to spell and do have a long history of usage.

3

I have thought about this many times before and definitely think that the culture of naming forums is vastly different than the culture of the real world. I find it quite elitist, actually, and it leads to a lot of potential issues, one being the existence and suggestion of so many names that are, if not unusable exactly, very difficult to pull off in normal, everyday life. Many people on here and other forums have been name nerds for years, love linguistics or etymology, and have these long, fanciful names on their signatures. They scoff at names that are “trendy” and put down names considered “filler” or “boring.” And yet, the birth announcements contain names that, while perhaps a bit unique, are largely not that unusual and are normally not on the same level as [name_f]Andromeda[/name_f], [name_f]Anouk[/name_f], and [name_f]Amaryllis[/name_f].

Does this do a disservice to the expecting moms who come here wanting advice? It absolutely can. What makes [name_u]Madison[/name_u] any less valid than [name_f]Aracely[/name_f]? Nothing. Except, apparently, its popularity. Now, I am guilty, so to speak, of not preferring “popular” names or some “trendy” most of the time only because I dislike having fifteen kids by the same name in a class and grew up with that happening with multiple names. However, I do not think that makes those names any less valid. I also do not tend to suggest names that are over-the-top because in the real world, those names are just going to be difficult in most places. Are they less valid because of that? No. Are they definitely unusable because of that? No. But they will tend to be more difficult in the judgmental world we live in. Perhaps not as much from other children, but definitely from adults. If you don’t care about saddling your kid with one heck of a bizarre name, then go for it! I certainly will not stop you, but don’t put down those who want something a bit more mainstream. On the other hand, the suggestion of more unusual names can sometimes open a world of new and interesting prospects for the expecting parents without being too over-the-top. There can be a happy medium.

As for names only being usable if they have nickname potential, no I don’t think that’s a requirement for usability. I love the name [name_f]Felicity[/name_f] and it doesn’t offer up the most attractive or instinctive nicknames most of the time. Ok, that’s fine. Same thing with [name_u]Cade[/name_u], which I love, and [name_u]Emerson[/name_u]—[name_f]Emer[/name_f], anyone? Awkward. But often, a nickname will come in time and sometimes it isn’t even related to the name itself. My name is [name_u]Chelsea[/name_u]. My mom calls me [name_m]Munch[/name_m]. No connection. I do think most people like a name that has nickname potential, though, because nicknames are easy and cute. Names like [name_f]Greer[/name_f], [name_f]May[/name_f], [name_m]George[/name_m], etc. that are shorter or don’t offer instinctive and easy nickname potential, however, are still great names!

I am not pregnant yet and do not have children, but I know that naming a real, living child is far different than naming a hypothetical one. The experience of naming a child is going to be different for everyone, too. I think this site, as a whole, needs to take a step back and realize that the people behind these screen names are just that–people–and they have feelings and likes and dislikes when it comes to names and that’s ok! I think we need to realize that some names are legitimately unrealistic names in some cultures or communities and that’s ok! I think we need to realize that trendy names are trendy because they’re names that sound good and are easy to pronounce and spell and that’s ok! I think we need to realize that some people, no matter what, are going to choose or suggest names that are long and fanciful and crazy and over-the-top and that’s ok! We can offer suggestions and opinions and perhaps point out some issues that might arise with any names we see in polite ways that validate the people choosing them and their right to choose names they like.

I got a little off topic, but I feel like a lot of issues go hand-in-hand with the one you raised. haha

4

Very well said.

5

I’ll admit that sometimes in questions asking which of two names I prefer, if I’m not especially keen on one, I’ll usually select the less common one. But, in general, I’ve been more appreciative of names people use on a regular basis, and I try to reflect that in the feedback that I give. My job brings me into contact with a lot of children and expectant parents, and a question that often comes up is “Does this little one have a name?” and for the ones who have picked one, I always give them a positive response. It’s real life, they have their hearts set already, so there’s no way I’d be like “Oh I don’t really like that.” Similarly if someone is very decided on these forums and is just looking for some opinions, I’m positive.

When it comes to my own name choices, I love rare/international names. I’d love to use them in some capacity, but that might just be as a middle name. Because a middle name is a safe place to have an exotic name. I didn’t use to think that way. In past years (I have been a name nerd a long time) my mindset was “You have to put the ‘cool’ name up front otherwise what’s the point?” Or even further back “You gotta have two cool names, why waste one of the names on something common?”

Which, looking back, seems stubborn and a little obnoxious of me. My thoughts on this have evolved, especially now that I’m at an age where having a child is an imminent possibility. I’m now thinking of how something could pan out in the real world, what names might be uncommon but wearable, or too difficult as a first name. Lately, I’ve been considering some name options that I like but probably wouldn’t have gone for before. And it’s been all right. I’ve gotten fond of some lower-key names and I think if I used them, I wouldn’t regret it.

I guess I’ve grown up and buttoned up a bit, and once in a while it does feel like I’m being “safe” but not enough that I think I’ll go back to having extremely out there choices for first & middle. Putting the newer names I like together with the creative choices, these names feel more real to me. I can picture them much more on a child. So, I think, this is good progress.

6

Ha ha, yes! I’ve often thought this on this website in particular. When I’ve posted about unusual names here (two that particularly come to mind are [name_m]Nash[/name_m] and [name_f]Veda[/name_f]) the community on here is generally positive about them whereas on other baby sites with forums (e.g. Mumsnet) the results are much more conservative. It works the other way too with Moreno mainstream names - people on here tend to suggest rarer alternatives.

As a mother to a boy with a very rare name, I will be making sure the current bump has a slightly unusual name that sounds fresh but isn’t super rare, long or flouncy. I have been surprised by people’s reactions to my sons name which, although rare, is still only 2 syllables and spelt phonetically. It’s actually a lesser known [name_m]German[/name_m] / Dutch name. Despite this, people do a double take, ask me to repeat, ask how it’s spelt, look mystified and go quiet. I am so sick of this for my son who is only 18 months that I now dread how he will feel having the same reaction to his name for the rest of his life. We gave him a very normal middle name to fall back on if he wants which I would love to start using but it feels wierd now to do so.

So yes, while i love reading the forums on here and getting inspiration, if I was uncertain on a name I would ultimately head to a different site which has mums on it rather than name enthusiasts, many of whom have not had children yet…

That being said, I’m guilty on here of supporting the rarer name. I have loved the name [name_f]Aurora[/name_f] for many years, it’s in my signature and I suggest it to people. Would I call my child it? I’m not sure I would because I find it hard to get my mouth around. Sometimes names that look beautiful on paper are just not practical, sadly.

7

I know more unusual names aren’t for everyone, but honestly I think that any name, as long as it’s not offensive or something ridiculous like ‘hashtag’ for example, is usable if you love it and it feels right and you actually have the courage to go through with using it. I’m a lover of more unusual names, and if I ever have kids I’ll most likely use them. I know how it feels to have a very normal and extremely common/popular name and I wouldn’t want that for my kids. Plus I’m genuinely just naturally attracted to more magical names, like a lot of the names you listed. I don’t think that there would be anything wrong with using them either. They’re all easy to pronounce, or easy to learn how to pronounce, and very lovely names with beautiful meanings. I don’t think that you’re doing your kid any disservice by giving them a name that just happens to be uncommon, just like there’s nothing wrong with using a super common/popular name if that’s your taste.

8

I love naming forums and reading naming websites but I do bite my tongue on a lot of names that people suggest. People who do not have children seem to have a snootier take on baby names and it shows when they offer advice. It is not their fault. Until you really have a child that is yours and your responsibility there is nothing like it! The pressure and stakes are very high and all you want for them is love and acceptance and respect. I don’t have unique or fanciful taste in names, but I can see how that can come into question when you have to use it on your child rather than a baby doll, dog, or hypothetical child. Name lovers should give mamas a bit more grace when it comes to what they pick for their babies because it is always out of love.

9

You most likely will be naming children with another person’s wishes and likes/dislikes. They might be just as adamant that their children will receive known, more popular names. Naming an actual child is much more involved than creating lists and having your own thoughts and wishes. It is a very difficult task for two people to find names that they both adore so much that they would want to name a person the name. A person will not fully understand this task until they are fully involved in the task and a little one is on the way.

10

The top 1000 have never been a criterion for usability for me. My own name was never among them, because it’s foreign, and I only ever get compliments on it.

In the same way, where I live, you can name your kids anything: [name_m]Bear[/name_m], [name_f]Arielle[/name_f], [name_u]Sequoia[/name_u], [name_u]Zion[/name_u], [name_f]Ophelia[/name_f], [name_f]Persephone[/name_f]. Nobody bats an eye.

My criteria for usability are

  • no creative spellings, eg. no inserted Ys or added Xs or creations ending on -lyn
  • a name has to sound respectful and age well. For that reason, I tend t stay away from “cute” names.
11

For the longest time I have loved exotic/rare/unique/fictional/fantasy names that most people in the real world would label as ‘strange’ or ‘weird’. Within about the past eight months or so, I began to rethink those names that had dominated my signature – some I might still be willing to use in the middle spot, especially honor names, but a lot of them I had to admit are really more guilty pleasure names. When it comes down to it, I would probably name my daughter [name_f]Mia[/name_f] before [name_f]Zara[/name_f], [name_f]Lily[/name_f] before [name_f]Ariadne[/name_f]. I like being a bit more adventurous in the middle, as I said, but as first names, I think classic and/or popular is the way to go.

HOWEVER. I will use names I love. [name_m]Just[/name_m] because [name_f]Ava[/name_f] is more familiar and popular than [name_f]Arwen[/name_f], doesn’t mean I love her more. In fact, I don’t care for [name_f]Ava[/name_f], so if I had a daughter and had to choose between those two, she would be [name_f]Arwen[/name_f] no doubt. But when I compare [name_f]Ella[/name_f] to [name_f]Endellion[/name_f] – both names I love – I think [name_f]Ella[/name_f] would have the advantage. I hope that makes sense. I guess, what I’m saying is: I would prefer to use a name I love that is unpopular as opposed to using a name I dislike just because it is more appealing to everyone else. Yet a name I love that is also familiar has the advantage over the more unique names I love. Yeah.

And still, I don’t condemn anyone for considering an out-there choice. I mean, unless they’re planning to name their son [name_m]Lucifer[/name_m] or [name_m]Adolph[/name_m], I want to encourage people to be bold in their name choices and use the names they love. But I, personally, like to compromise and find names I love that are also classy and familiar. Besides, it’s always nice to have those guilty pleasure names. [name_m]Just[/name_m] becuase my son is named [name_u]Aidan[/name_u] doesn’t mean I can’t still love [name_m]Atticus[/name_m].

I hope what I say makes sense. It can be hard to explain for me because I don’t want to sound critical or like I think mine is the only valid opinion on the subject. I just feel like…as others have said before, it’s not you who will have to wear the name so it is wise to consider how your child will feel wearing the name. It may not be right for other people to judge a child based on their name, but sometimes they do anyway. Names with potential for teasing or with negative associations should cause you to think before you bestow them on another human being who will have to live with it.

That’s all I’m saying. [name_f]Every[/name_f] name should be carefully thought through, all the pros and cons weighed out fairly, before it is selected.

12

I always take useability into account. I too get tired of uber popular names. I don’t get it. I had an unusual yet classic name that my parents didn’t use. I got nicknamed the top name of the time. I hated it. I always wished they had stuck with the classic, yet rarely used name. Trendy is usually always more offensive than classically popular names like [name_f]Emma[/name_f] or [name_f]Lily[/name_f].

[name_m]Even[/name_m] though I really dislike super popular names, I don’t want my child to have a name that people find weird or ridiculous. You think if [name_f]Talia[/name_f] as more common, but I see it as unique and almost exotic.

13

I get that if I had a child there would most likely be someone else’s opinion to factor in, but I would still make sure that my hypothetical kids got names that I loved, and didn’t end up with anything too common or popular. There are tons of uncommon but familiar sounding/looking names if that ended up being a problem. Plus I’m much more flexible with middle names; I’d be totally fine using a common middle name as long as it’s not a filler name. Most of the middle names I love are already more common/popular anyway. I get that you don’t know what it’s actually like to go through this until you’re having a kid yourself, but that doesn’t change the fact that I know that I would want to give this hypothetical child a more unusual name. It’s not like it’s an impossible thing to do, lots of people give their kids uncommon names.

14

But, as I said, your significant other might not want unusual names, they might want common names for first names. They might want names only in the top 10, or top 5. Naming a child involves both parents. When parents don’t agree on style it makes things even harder but both still need to be happy with the choice, both still need to adore the name.

15

But, as I said, your significant other might not want unusual names, they might want common names for first names. They might want names only in the top 10, or top 5. Naming a child involves both parents. When parents don’t agree on style it makes things even harder but both still need to be happy with the choice, both still need to adore the name.

And I didn’t say that parents cannot choose uncommon names. They can if both agree to the name, both adore the name.

16

I think usability is extremely subjective and I think it’s up to an individual person to decide what is usable. My daughters name is in the top 300, but I have yet to meet another one. I would absolutely use an “off the wall” rare name if I loved it and if I were to ever have another child, I would likely use something way more rare than my other two children’s names because as I have gotten older, I have fewer and fewer F*cks to give and will live for myself. And before anyone, especially someone without children, steps in and tries to say “but it’s your children’s name, not your’s!” - yes, obviously, but we make plenty of choices for our children before they are born and before they are able to make decisions for themselves and those decisions will reflect my values and my values happen to include being authentic to yourself, even if it’s not someone elses cup of tea.

Outside of that, my daughter is in a daycare/ preschool program that has an extremely wide variety of names, literally everything from [name_f]Brittany[/name_f] to [name_f]Evangeline[/name_f] (my daughter) to [name_m]Leonidas[/name_m]. Names are becoming more and more unique - because in the end, something like Coppelia is probably as every bit as rare of some of the uniquely spelled creative made-up names that people outside of the naming community seem to like. Rare, completely unique names are pretty acceptable these days.

17

I understand that they might not want an uncommon name but I’d be just as adamant about not giving them a common/popular name because I know what that feels like and wouldn’t want that for them. Like I said there are tons of familiar yet uncommon names that I’d love to use. It doesn’t have to be something as “out there” as ‘[name_f]Andromeda[/name_f]’ or ‘Polyhymnia’. And again, I get that I’d most likely have to factor someone else’s opinion in, I’m not stupid. Anyway, there’s really no point in continuing to talk about this. I honestly don’t know what else to say to you. This is all purely hypothetical, and I stand by how I feel on this subject so there’s just really no point. I don’t know if I’m ever even going to want kids, so yeah. :slight_smile:

*I’m not having kids anytime soon (if ever), but I am in the process of renaming myself, and as an extremely shy and very self conscious person I definitely do get the uncertainty that can come with using a more unusual name.

18

I have also been thinking a lot about this lately, as I too am expecting my first child this year.

I ultimately found that thinking about the more usual names on my list (which were still out-there choices for a lot of people), I just ultimately felt disingenuous to myself as a namenerd. We obviously haven’t named our baby yet officially and there is still plenty of time for me or DH to falter on our decisions, but we wound up just thinking that it wouldn’t feel right to us to go with the more common names we were considering when we genuinely loved the unusual ones more and found them calling to us everytime we left the names alone to steep for a little while.

My husband has a very common name, which was number 16 the year he was born, and has been a perennial classic that has never wavered too much and been in the top 200 for the past 70 years. He has never felt any connection to his name and although he has never been particularly bothered by it, either, idly wishes he had a cooler name (lol, I do, too). His parents chose his name as fresh immigrants to this country who wanted him to blend in to the crowd, and blend he does on paper, but in most other ways he stands out and wishes he had something that suited him a little better.
My name has recently revived and is familiar to nearly all, but very unusual among my cohort (I’ve never met another in my age group… only very elderly ladies now deceased and kids on the playground constantly in the past few years). I have always appreciated having an unusual name, one that gets near-constant complements, with the occasional “That’s an old lady name” (these comments have all but stopped now that it has picked up so much and is widely heard anew). I believe that while there is definitely some bias against people with out-there names in the real world, what we do as parents to shape our children’s lives and the ways we train them and condition them to interact with the world can also alleviate a lot of the “problems” with out-there names. I’m counting on this. I’m counting on my [name_f]Chrysanthemum[/name_f] to develop character enough to live up to her crazy name and to go out in the world and prove anybody wrong who deigns to think ill of her on paper because of her name and not call her back for a job interview, for example. But the world is constantly changing, too, and we can’t really make assumptions either about how the world will be as our children grow. I’m assuming that because there are these biases that are largely acknowledged, in 20-some years when my kid is applying for their first full-time job, there will probably be more safeguards against this type of bias (separating job applications from their respective data on names, gender, race, etc. until after review, for example). I’m excited about the names we are vetting.

I don’t personally suggest names on this site that I find unusable in real life… but my judgement of usability seems to be very far-reaching compared to many on this site, and that’s ok by me. But when I suggest [name_f]Andromeda[/name_f] to somebody, it’s legitimately suggesting that [name_f]Andromeda[/name_f] might be an excellent choice for that person to actually name a child. I respect that many don’t see it that way when naming an actual child, but it’s easy enough to just overlook if that advice doesn’t speak to that person.

I have noticed that I have become much more tolerant of what I used to view as blah or meh names because they were too common or popular or trendy. I understand a little better now why parents choose those types of names. For me, as I said, it ultimately just felt disingenuous for me to consider the names that would blend into the crowd, though. I’m not sure that my husband actually understands just how unusual our choices are (even though we have talked about it extensively), and I’m sure he will bear the brunt of our choices more directly in the early years (he, unlike me, works in an industry where he is constantly chatting with dozens of people face to face every day… I’m sure he will get many, “oh… how unusual” responses to our names. But I couldn’t be happier that he is on so on board with choosing name-nerdy names (he was the one who first suggested [name_f]Chrysanthemum[/name_f] 2 years ago)!

It’s all so personal and I can see it both ways. Naming an actual child has been an eye-opener, though, and I’m sure it will continue to be as we experience reactions to our newborn’s name in real life in just a few months.

19

If you have children, you will understand it all then.

I wanted to comment about your being extremely shy and very self conscious. I can relate, or could relate. When I was a child/young adult I was also. My son is actually the one that caused me to become way less shy and self conscious. He has a very out-going personality. [name_m]Even[/name_m] as a young toddler he would toddle up to strangers and talk to them. One time he walked straight up to a group of teens, dressed all in black, spiked jewelry, hair in multi-colored mokawks. The first thing out of his mouth was that he liked their hair. They thanked him. He then asked about their jewelry, etc. They started talking to me, told me he was a very cool kid. One of them said everyone is afraid of them and people usually just ignore them. We all ended up talking for awhile. That was the day that I broke through my big shy wall.

[name_m]Long[/name_m] story to say… I was always thankful I had an average name (for lack of better words). I knew kids with unusual names and they were often asked about them. I always thought I wouldn’t like that. As an adult, I look back and wonder if an unusual name would have broken down that shy wall way sooner. The forced needing to talk about my name. It’s something I will never know. It could have built my wall higher and thicker. Maybe you could test out an unusual name for a month or two.

20

I believe that the reason why so many of us name-nerds gravitate towards the unusual and obscure is because a vast majority of us are not actually parents. I would hazard a guess that at least 8 out of 10 of us are naming “future children”, aka - fantasy characters. They have no faces, no personalities or distinguishing features which we would need to match appropriate names to, and they don’t exist in our world wherein the names we choose have real effects and, at times, consequences. Oh, and they don’t have a second parent who would veto our name choices either! As such, the list of possibilities is endless and so we let our tastes run wild!

Most names are technically usable in the sense that you only need to write them on a birth certificate for them to qualify at such. But not all of them are realistic, and therein lies the problem.

I see a fair few people on this site catering to names like [name_f]Antigone[/name_f] and [name_f]Andromeda[/name_f] and, no doubt, they are beautiful. But they are completely unrealistic, as practically every girl given such names would see them shortened to “[name_f]Anne[/name_f]” or “[name_f]Annie[/name_f]” on a permanent basis. Or shorter foreign names that are hard to spell or pronounce, or not complimenting the child-in-question’s culture such as Aiobhlinn , Yngvild etc. They work for imaginary kids, they’re just too much for your average real ones.

And I do think this causes problems as, when mums and dads come on here looking for proper advice, us throwing our often less-than-realistic choices their way, or us judging them over their “boring” and “mainstream” styles, really isn’t doing them any favours. That’s not to say that we can’t give good feedback or offer decent ideas, but with no point of reference on our parts, we can and often do go overboard. And while I am more than perfectly aware of this myself, I admit that I’m still guilty of scoffing or rolling my eyes when a name like [name_u]James[/name_u] or [name_f]Ava[/name_f] turns up.

When we get older, when we find partners, and when we get closer to actually having children, what is realistic and what is not becomes much more obvious to us - or it has for me, at least…