Please help me understand why people from other countries believe they need to “educate” Americans.
I just went onto another baby name site and was struck immediately by the (imo) offensive comment from one of the users. The comment “I’m on a mission to educate Americans on this name.” It doesn’t matter what the associated name is. Not all Americans believe the falsely associated information on a name (in the case of this example, the name is a girl name or unisex name when it is actually a boy name in its country of origin).
I also got a comment earlier on here about how names are pronounced differently depending on where you’re at. For this one, I knew nothing about the poster I responded to and offered up a suggestion. [name_f]My[/name_f] location on the profile is that I’m in the US. That doesn’t show my background, yet the person automatically assumed I was American and knew only what “every American” knows and only that.
[name_f]My[/name_f] background is such that I was in speech therapy from the age of 3 through 14. Almost everyone of my speech therapists were born and/or educated in countries other than the US (primarily UK, [name_f]Canada[/name_f], Australia and a couple of other European nations). I did my classwork with the therapist as I was pulled out of my classes for therapy, so I was educated to other countries’ standards. I also developed accents which were not acceptable to my American family in today’s time, but would have been accepted by previous generations. [name_f]My[/name_f] last therapist was my first and only American educated therapist. The American concept on speech therapy had me running in the other direction quicker than you can say “run”.
[name_f]My[/name_f] current location gives absolutely no background on me personally. I could be a [name_u]Brit[/name_u] living in the US who heard a name and presented it not knowing where the poster lived. Please do not assume all Americans are uneducated on names and their history or pronunciation. Using generalizations concerning Americans makes a person seem uneducated about the people they are “educating”, imo.
Sorry for the rant, but these are only two of the examples I’ve come across lately (and especially today), and I’ve reached my limit. Please help me understand.
ETA: Most are from other sites, but a couple have been on here. I took the ones on here with a grain of salt, but with the other examples piling up, they have just been added to my rant. Most of the people I’ve come across on here have been absolutely amazing.
Yikes. I’m sorry you’ve experienced this. I’m also in the US, and I must admit, I wasn’t overly familiar with names from other cultures until recently. But that goes for someone from any region/country! When you are growing up, you are exposed only to names that are common in your area. But, with the knowledge that you are on naming sites, people should be able to infer that you have a basic knowledge of names, and wouldn’t need to be “educated” purely because you are American! Anyone can be knowledgeable, just as anyone can be unknowledgeable! So frustrating!
I definitely think the ‘Educate Americans’ thing is unnecessary. I wonder if it’s because Americans make up a large chunk of people on this site and it has just begun to mean ‘educate people from other countries’?
I have to say, it’s not something I’ve ever noticed on this site, but perhaps because I’m not American myself I’m less sensitive to this. Please always flag anything you feel goes against the community guidelines here, and the mod team will review it as a priority.
I will say that I have seen this anti-American stance a lot on some British-oriented baby names boards. Someone will ask for opinions on a perfectly nice and normal name, say [name_u]Piper[/name_u] or [name_u]Hudson[/name_u], and it will be dismissed as “so American” with no further comment, as though that’s reason enough not to use it.
You’d never say “Ugh no, you can’t use that, it’s so [name_f]Asian[/name_f]” or “Yuck, sooo Irish!” so these “too American” comments really sit badly with me.
Thank you. I appreciate this. These “too American” comments sit badly with me too. I don’t judge on a name’s background when a person chooses it as I don’t know the background of the person using it, and I hope others would pay me the same courtesy.
I haven’t noticed a whole lot on here, just an episode or 2 in all the time I’ve been on this site. Unfortunately, one of those just happened, and came around the same time as a couple of major ones from other sites, therefore getting thrown onto the rant. Overall I love this site, and haven’t had any issues otherwise. I thank you and the rest of the mods for keeping the site friendly, welcoming and inviting.
I posted on here with this as I don’t understand this whole “American” thing and hope people on here can explain. If I posted on any other site, asking this question, I’m afraid I’d be crucified before everyone finishes the first paragraph. Again, this site has been great outside of an isolated incident or two.
I don’t like to rant or complain about other people’s actions, but I hit my top limit with what I saw. The generalizations of the statements and actions bothered me, yet I couldn’t comprehend the reasoning behind them. In my frustration and hitting the (figurative) wall, I wanted to understand it more than be angry at the whole situation.
The “educate Americans” comments are completely unnecessary.
However I do understand the “too American” comments about names and would consider many names I love “too Irish”, “too [name_f]Asian[/name_f]” “too Spanish” etc to name my own children because I feel they aren’t a reflection of mine and my partners cultures (British & Kiwi). Doesn’t mean I don’t like or enjoy learning about other names- I wouldn’t be a Nameberry if I didn’t!-, it just means on a personal level, they aren’t necessarily names I would consider a good fit for my little family. Therefore I’ve never really thought of the “too XYZ” comments as being offensive before when people have been asked for their opinions on a name because many people choose names based on their personal interpretations, associations and cultural connections to a name. To give an example, I love the name [name_f]Juana[/name_f] but am unlikely to use it on any future daughters because I feel it has less of a connection to my personal heritage and culture than other names.
I hadn’t noticed anyone talking about “educating americans”, I’m so sorry you’ve experienced that, it’s incredibly rude and completely unjustified.
I’m not sure I do understand where it comes from, but perhaps people feeling that as a country [name_u]America[/name_u]’s size, power, or cultural influence make it “fair game” for criticism in some way?
Alternatively, perhaps other countries seeing the ‘face’ of [name_u]America[/name_u] in the news so frequently in the form of Trump - I’m sorry if you’re a supporter but to me he comes across as a stupid, ignorant, racist, narcissistic bafoon - and foolishly begin to actually see him as a representation of American people/culture?
Note that I am not suggesting either of these in any way justifies posts like the ones you’ve seen! But as you really seem curious as to where it could be coming from, I thought I’d hazard a guess.
Nope, not a supporter. I haven’t liked him since I’ve known who he was as a child. He reminds me too much of another stupid, ignorant, racist, narcissistic, self-centered, image-obsessed buffoon I hate (and the list of people I hate is limited, but justified).
I totally understand your viewpoint here. I love the name [name_f]Paloma[/name_f], for example, but it feels too Spanish for me (someone with no Spanish connection whatsoever) to use.
What I’m talking about is different, however. I’ve noticed (on these other British boards, not here) that people routinely use the word “American” as a criticism or slur against a name in and of itself. Much like posters on here often use the word “trendy” in a negative, euphemistic way.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. It certainly feels more socially acceptable (rightly or wrongly) than, say, making a similarly disparaging comment about a minority group.
I definitely think the “educate Americans” thing is uncalled for. It’s rude to make assumptions about people and assume that if they have “X” background then they couldn’t possibly be familiar with a certain name or know how to pronounce it.
As for the negative comments, I think a lot of country’s names get this. I have seen the spellings of Irish names being bashed on this website and others. Or names like [name_m]Liam[/name_m] and [name_u]Aidan[/name_u] getting dismissed as “trendy, Zoomer” names when they are very traditional names in Irish culture. Some people don’t consider other cultures before they write these comments. They only think about how the name would be perceived in their own culture.
I’ve seen this sometimes on other naming sites too. I think part of it may have to do with the stereotype that Americans are rarely multilingual like Europeans tend to be. Therefore, we are presumably less likely to know how to pronounce things that aren’t common in “American [name_f]English[/name_f]”. Kind of funny because where I’m from most people are at least partially bilingual by necessity if not by birth.
And it could be that people view “American” names as tacky/“made-up”. Everyone has a right to an opinion I guess.
It is true that [name_u]America[/name_u] is huge and very diverse. Sometimes our states are almost like different countries. So yes, people shouldn’t assume just because you’re in [name_u]America[/name_u] that you have a particular background.
When I travel I usually just say I’m from [name_u]Texas[/name_u]. I’m ok with being stereotyped as a gun-slinging cowgirl, even if I’m very much not.
I have the opposite problem where I’m from. I grew up in a huge city of several million people located in a large metropolitan area, with cities backed up to each others’ borders. Despite the population of the city, when I went to college a couple of hours away (in the same state) people would sit there and name off all the other cities in the metropolitan area when I was from insert city name here, disbelieving of the fact that anyone could actually live in the city for which the metro area was named. I quickly learned I had to say insert city name here Proper. [name_m]How[/name_m] crazy is it that within our own state, people within insert city name here Proper don’t have an identity because others from the state don’t believe anyone could actually live there?
Thank you. I agree as it was definitely an unnecessary statement. I would agree, but this happens mainly on other sites, and less so on here. I’ve been on US, British, Irish and Australian sites (just to name a few) where this runs rampant.
Thank you for putting it into words. Yes, in many cases “American” has been used as a slur for something that is hated and no other term seems to be available. I even noticed on a post (can’t remember which site it was on) that [name_u]Kennedy[/name_u] (not the name from my original post, but still a great example), an Irish name, is criticized as “too American” when someone told their families they were thinking of using it. When people do this, without elaborating, it often turns a description into a slur.
I’ve noticed this as well. In my area I’ve been called and heard others called “too white” and in other areas (even my own family), yet the minute someone says something against a minority race and everyone is up in arms (oftentimes literally). Making a slur-ish remark against a majority group seems to have become commonplace and therefore more socially acceptable, but it doesn’t make it any more acceptable than making a similar comment about a minority group.
Thank you.
Too true. I’ve noticed this on another (US-based) website with a large US following. A blog post written by the site owner made disparaging comments about the spelling of names. He wrote that names should only be spelled the traditional way (in his mind), and he would ensure that when his own kids were naming their kids in the future that they held to his spelling variations or they couldn’t use the name. Though he had some support, he had quite a bit of backlash reminding him that other cultures and countries have other spellings for a name and he doesn’t know the background of anyone else naming their kids (and in the case of the celebrities he specifically mentioned, he should have looked up their backgrounds before making comments about them). I was immediately ashamed to be associated (albeit loosely and only by nationality and current location) with such close-minded people.
Thank you.
It may. I do find myself in disbelief as this country is a melting pot of many of the world’s nations. Unfortunately, as my mum found out when she traveled to Europe, Spanish used in Mexico and the Central American countries she has been to in the past does not always translate to the Spanish used in Spain. There are enough differences between the countries, just as there are differences between [name_f]English[/name_f] speaking countries, that could make Americans presumably fit the stereotype when they are just as educated in languages as a European.
Yes, I agree that many of the names associated with the term “American” can be tacky/“made-up”, although more often I have seen the term used to disparage names from other places which have become associated with the US ([name_u]Kennedy[/name_u] for example).
I definitely agree… I’ve traveled cross country multiple times in my life and it seems like going between countries and not states sometimes with the diversity here.
It’s amazing to me. I’ve never been to the US bar a stopover in NY when I was about 9, and the mind truly boggles at the scale and diversity I’d love to do a proper US tour one day.
I hope you get the chance to do a proper tour one day. All I can recommend is coming in the spring or autumn. The southern part of the US can be unbearably hot during the summer.
As a [name_u]Brit[/name_u], I often see names that are unique or peculiar (such as Makynna or Abcde) labelled “too American”, mostly because they are completely unheard of as names in [name_m]Britain[/name_m], but are known to be names among American celebrities, or celebrities residing in [name_u]America[/name_u], or just generally more popular among Americans than Brits.
As for the “educating Americans” thing, it was presumptuous to assume that because you’re from an [name_f]English[/name_f] speaking country that you have no idea how to pronounce or spell names correctly (after all, some names do have multiple spelling and accepted pronunciations). Personally, I’ve come across people with Arabic names who will give me a nickname as opposed to their actual name, which they prefer to be called, because they assume I can’t pronounce it and are then surprised when I can (these names dominated my high school).
The “educating Americans” thing is also rude. I know some Americans pronounce some names different to Brits (such as [name_m]Harry[/name_m]), but I also understand that the name is just pronounced that way to them so it’s a correct pronunciation in that region. It annoys me sometimes when I see Welsh names spelt ‘wrong’ or mispronounced but all I’d do is offer the Welsh spelling and pronunciation as an alternative to the name as I’m aware that sometimes a different spelling is required, depending on the region, to get the desired pronunciation (such as [name_u]Rhys[/name_u] > [name_u]Reese[/name_u])
I’d love to do a proper US tour one day.
All I can recommend is coming in the spring or autumn. The southern part of the US can be unbearably hot during the summer.