really, really offended by Tuesday's blog post.

General Name Discussion
1

Since my life (happily!) got a little busier over the last few months, I haven’t been involved in much discussion here. But today’s thoughtless blog post upset me enough that I will delete my account and not add to Nameberry’s traffic again, after I explain my reasoning for doing so.

The blog post about names which are ‘Too Much’ included [name]Bliss[/name], [name]Destiny[/name], [name]Harmony[/name], [name]Heaven[/name], [name]Infinity[/name], [name]Journey[/name], [name]Justice[/name], [name]Karma[/name], [name]King[/name], [name]Legend[/name], [name]Merry[/name], [name]Messiah[/name], [name]Miracle[/name], [name]Obedience[/name], [name]Patience[/name], [name]Precious[/name], [name]Prince[/name], [name]Princeton[/name], [name]Romeo[/name], [name]Serenity[/name], [name]Sincere[/name], [name]Star[/name], [name]Treasure[/name], [name]Trust[/name], [name]Truth[/name], [name]Venus[/name]. I edited out a half dozen there, but essentially, that’s the list of names singled out for criticism in [name]Tuesday[/name]'s post.

Objectively, I don’t think those concepts are any more grandiose, or any more difficult to live up to (and many in fact seem more reasonable) than, for example, [name]Grace[/name], [name]Verity[/name], [name]Joy[/name], [name]Felicity[/name], [name]Honor[/name], [name]Constance[/name], [name]Mercy[/name], [name]Blythe[/name], [name]Clemency[/name], [name]Faith[/name], [name]Haven[/name], [name]Chastity[/name], [name]Amity[/name], [name]Aria[/name], [name]Gaia[/name], [name]Haven[/name], [name]Bella[/name], [name]Charity[/name], [name]Poet[/name], [name]Story[/name], [name]Blaze[/name], [name]Maximus[/name], [name]Odin[/name], [name]Nehemiah[/name], [name]Beckham[/name], [name]Solomon[/name], [name]Atticus[/name], or [name]Orion[/name].

There’s one big difference between those two lists of names. Try google image searching the first set of names with the surname [name]Williams[/name], [name]Thomas[/name], or [name]Jackson[/name]. Now try the same with the second list.

[name]Serenity[/name]'s ‘too much’, and on this list. [name]Grace[/name], apparently, is an acceptable name, despite also being quite a lot to live up to and certainly something that can be unintentionally and painfully ironic for the bearer. [name]Both[/name] are in the top 100 names. [name]Serenity[/name] also happens to be in the Top 10 for [name]Black[/name] girls born in NYC in 2011. And therein is the reason for my anger. “Too Much” is definitely a judgement call, and probably a fair one in the case of a number of surprisingly popular names. The problem with the list presented in this blog post is that it skews more towards being a really uncomfortable insight into this site’s priorities and prejudices than it does towards a valuable insight into those names which are ‘Too Much’ for the people who bear them.

There is too much ignorance, prejudice, and lack of curiosity about the fascinating naming patterns which occur in our society. I looked to this site for information, insight, and enlightenment about these patterns, and today was presented by a pile of poorly-researched, poorly-argued offensive bunkum.

There is a plethora of good, well-researched articles about Black names (and the appalling prejudice against those who bear them) available on reputable sites; they make for fascinating reading. The crux of my upset is NB adding to the quiet and pernicious prejudice against Black (or ‘trashy’, or in Canada, names used heavily in the First Nations community) by having America’s “top baby-name experts” declare these names a poor choice. Serenity, Journey, and Harmony are not more intrinsically burdensome than Grace or Honor or Verity; Legend, Justice, and King no more grandiose than Solomon or Maximus or Rex. I want my name commentary to have better insights, better research, and a modicum of cultural sensitivity and curiosity. I have no interest in sites which further the prejudice which already exists in our culture.

I had reservations about the authors’ snarky judgement calls on certain names to begin with, though many of them have since been revised. However, after today’s performance, I will not be coming back.

Which is too bad, because I love names and so many of the discussions here are thoughtful and informative, and a lot of fun!

2

Wow. [name]Just[/name]… wow. Everything about what you just said makes me wonder if you’re one of those people who makes a career out of being offended.

I began reading this with interest, wondering what in the world could have been offensive about today’s post. I shared it with my friend, since her name is [name]Destiny[/name] [name]Promise[/name] and she hates it. Her mom says her name was inspired by God. Oh, and she’s white. I guess I’m supposed to mention that now. Sigh.

[name]Every[/name] time somebody says “I’m offended,” I feel like I’m supposed to reach for my wallet.

I hope Nameberry continues to speak the truth as they see it about names and naming, without being softly bullied by the “offended.”

3

I thought [name]Tuesday[/name]'s blog post was no big deal. There were a few names that didn’t necessarily need to be on the list, but, for the most part, I wouldn’t give those names to a child because I agree they’re a lot to live up to.

I didn’t see the article as racist at all.

It just listed a bunch of not very good name choices.

4

I am glad you said something maple. The article didn’t sit quite right with me but I couldn’t quite say why. I would say a lot of the discussion of names here is toeing the line of classism and culture-bias but rarely do we confront it full on. I’ll admit I’m part of the problem. I prefer names that signal high class, European ancestry, and money. Made up names are treated with the worst kind of disdain. There is a line between preference and judgment and I have yet to figure out where it is.

I definitely agreed that some names were hard: [name]Romeo[/name] and [name]Princeton[/name], but others like [name]Bliss[/name] seemed like no big deal I couldn’t figure out why they were on there. Why wasn’t [name]Atticus[/name] on there? It’s pretty tough to be an uncompromising believer in equality, a lawyer, and a father all at once, and to lose the respect of your entire community.

5

I am rarely offended, and have never rescinded my membership in anything on those grounds. Usually, dialogue makes things better in the long run. And now I’m logging out.

6

It sounds like you will not be reading this but i have to say that you are right. I don’t think that they are intentionally being classist/racist: they just represent a certain point of view ie. upperclass white people. I don’t think that they realize that names are a very sensitive issue because they are so connected with culture and class. I think much of the negativity needs to be removed from this website, but then again [name]Pam[/name] and [name]Linda[/name] own the site and can express their opinions freely, of course; they should just understand that their opinions are reaching people all over the world and that there is a strong possibility that they will alienate and offend people when they express negative opinions without much thought.

7

I think you make some valid points, but the only two implicitly barely offensive remarks in that blog post was that 1) “clearly” without the author’s exclusive list of names one should NOT use, we are but lost sheep who make bad naming decisions, and 2) anyone who has named a baby in the past decade has done a poorer job than those of generations past.

No mention of race, nor class; I didn’t get the vibe at all. I know 10 people with names from that list, and coincidentally, all are people from [name]Canada[/name], and there is a mix of backgrounds from Irish to Ukranian (none of them are black), and most are my age. Of the first 3 names on the list, [name]Arcadia[/name], [name]Atlas[/name] & [name]Bliss[/name]… well, I worked with an EA earlier this year named [name]Arcadia[/name] and she is a wonderful, intelligent, innovative woman (she’s the Ukranian). I love the name [name]Atlas[/name]. I’ve had a soft spot for [name]Bliss[/name] for years.
That’s 3 in a row I disagree with, so whatever the rest of the list is, I take it with a grain of salt since I don’t think it holds any value for myself (I wouldn’t have continued to read if I weren’t going to reply to this post anyway, even though it’s totally a lost cause if you’ve left the site).

If one wants some academic, unbiased, objective facts about names, a blog written by two people who share subjectivities (and quite successfully) is not the place to be doing ‘research’. I love the forums, and I’m quite capable of forming my own opinions and doing my own research with language academies, journals, factual etymological sources, and travel. I’m becoming baffled as to why lately there’s been so much backlash against the authors when they clearly state that these are their opinions. [name]Do[/name] I think databases should be objective and correct when intended as a resource? Absolutely! Am I aware that this database does not have that quality? Obviously. Does it matter? Not at all, since I know how to use google and think for myself. Everyone should be thinking critically about any information they come across.

8

On the one hand, you bring up an interesting point. Why is [name]Serenity[/name] different from [name]Grace[/name]? The blog posts frequently are opinion pieces rather than well-researched, mores the pity, but honestly what do you expect? The operative word is blog, not book.

On the other hand, you’re incorrect. This site frequently discusses the thorny issues of class, and, less frequently, race, surrounding naming practices; in fact in the Girls forum there is currently a very active thread discussing “trashy” names which garnered a lot of skirt-gathering. It’s part of what makes the subject so compelling, fascinating, and occasionally uncomfortable.

It’s funny how quickly you drew the racial conclusion. I actually think you’re factually incorrect there, too, especially in your dichotomy. I’d be willing to bet my shirt that there are more white Serenitys than there are black or Hispanic (and, I think it’s gotten it’s downmarket reputation because of [name]Sailor[/name] [name]Moon[/name], and the kinds of people who name their children after [name]Sailor[/name] [name]Moon[/name] characters). [name]Harmony[/name], [name]Journey[/name] and [name]Karma[/name] are white hippie names; [name]Merry[/name] is an old-school name popular in [name]England[/name] more than a century ago; [name]Patience[/name] is very very white; [name]Sincere[/name] and [name]Trust[/name] are extremely rarely given, and sound more like [name]Christian[/name] African immigrant names; [name]Messiah[/name], [name]Prince[/name], [name]King[/name], [name]Venus[/name] and [name]Precious[/name] are African-American; [name]Destiny[/name] and [name]Heaven[/name] would belong to the group currently being discussed in the Girls forum. In short, quite a grab bag, united only by the belief that they are “too much.”

The names you suggested as ‘white’ and acceptable are equally diverse. The first nine definitely strike me as posher white names, but [name]Haven[/name] and [name]Chastity[/name] belong to the downmarket group, [name]Orion[/name] and [name]Blaze[/name] are more frequently black; [name]Poet[/name] and [name]Story[/name] are faux-Bohemian; [name]Aria[/name] is given to nearly everyone; [name]Nehemiah[/name] is given to Orthodox Jews, [name]Odin[/name] and [name]Gaia[/name] are hipster names (so posh, but a totally different flavor); etc.

Of course you won’t be discussing this rather interesting grab-bag of names nor dissecting the shades of gray that separate [name]Felicity[/name] from [name]Chastity[/name], not after the game of Politically Correct [name]Bingo[/name] that was your sign-off post, which is really too bad. (Btw I got bingo! after ‘offended,’ ‘prejudice,’ ‘[name]Black[/name]-with-a-capital-B,’ ‘ignorance,’ and ‘First Nations Community.’ at first I wasn’t sure if it was a deleted page from Stuff White People Like.)

9

I think I’m offended by how badly you got offended.

10

Completely not related but since the OP has apparently left, hello fellow [name]Seraphine[/name] and [name]Edmund[/name] aficionada!
And [name]Mackenzie[/name], and [name]Opal[/name] <3

11

Hello back! I think I can safely say that you have awesome taste :slight_smile:

12

I have to agree with [name]Maple[/name] to some degree. Some of the lines of discussion are very offensive on this website. For example, there is a post entitled ‘white-trash names’ going on right now and it has several pages of people eagerly discussing the white-trashiest names they can imagine. The term ‘white-trash’ is such an incredibly offensive and racist phrase, I cannot believe the moderators did not take it down immediately, nor can I believe how spiritedly people engaged in the discussion.

13

Everything blade and beebear just said.

14

That’s where we differ. I am happy to be left alone to discuss what I feel like discussing. We all know what white trash means and what white trash names are. Why shouldn’t we be allowed to talk about it? Because it’s “politically incorrect?” The origins of that term alone are enough to make me loathe it.

15

I’m not really offended, but I have to agree that discussion of things like race and class [name]DO[/name] tend to be discouraged by the creators of the site and they [name]DO[/name] tend to come off as snobby a lot of the time. I have personally seen one of them (I believe it was [name]Pam[/name], I could be wrong) discourage discussion of [name]Cohen[/name] because it “wasn’t unnecessary”. I have also seen very ethnic names bashed and disrespected many times.

16

Why should we be discouraged from discussing hot button issues that, like it or not, are connected to names? [name]Race[/name] is a legit topic of conversation, as is class.

17

Right. But that isn’t what is going on. It isn’t a discussion of race or class, it is bashing names connected to different races and classes. [name]Do[/name] you understand the difference? But hey, if someone is a racist and classist, I guess there is no reason to hide that. Right?

18

@whimsy if you read my post I actually completely disagree that [name]Tuesday[/name]'s blog post drew stark racial lines.

Again, you need to understand the difference between an objective discussion of such matters and value judgements drawn therefrom. Describing a sociological phenomenon observed in naming trends-- basically, the simple fact that birds of a feather flock together, and similar people choose similar names-- is not in any way a statement that people on the lower end of the SES scale are inferior human beings who don’t live their lives with as much dignity, joy and humanity as anyone else.

I get where you’re coming from with the use of words like trash or ghetto. Those ARE implicit value judgements. But they’re [name]Seth[/name] MacFarlane’s words, and despite their ugliness they are a useful shorthand sometimes.

19

Lol you are reading too much into it and taking offense from a light hearted discussion.

20

This is ridiculous. There was nothing racial about that blog. The blog was offensive and ridiculous because it implies that names like [name]Serenity[/name] and [name]Bliss[/name] are too much to live up to, yet names like [name]Grace[/name] and [name]Felicity[/name] are perfectly acceptable. It was a stupid blog. It was mean and critical of some really good name choices. It also implied that we shouldn’t give our children names that are inspired by anything great. It had nothing to do with race.

Prejudice and racism is a real problem/issue in our society, but you are imagining that you see it where it doesn’t even exist. Go find something real and important to stand up against.

BTW - my daughter is named [name]Serenity[/name] and we are white. I have met two other little girls named [name]Serenity[/name], one was white and one was native. Oddly enough, I have never met a black girl named [name]Serenity[/name].

Also, as a side not, I come on nameberry often and have never come across any racism. There are a lot of names from different cultures that get talked about on here, and not once did I ever see anybody type something racist. That is one of the things I love about Nameberry. There are a lot of people on here from around the world and a lot of people with different cultural backgrounds. Sometimes threads might be a little bit more hot-button then others, but most of the time people here are really respectful.