Sophisticated Spellings

I was just having a random thought to myself about how spellings can change the “vibe” (couldn’t think of a better term) of a name, and that some look more chic and sophisticated than others.

In my own opinion, here are some examples
(Bold means my favourite of the two)

[name_f]Scarlet[/name_f] or [name_f]Scarlett[/name_f]
[name_f]Liliana[/name_f] or [name_f]Lilliana[/name_f]
[name_m]Philip[/name_m] or [name_m]Phillip[/name_m]
[name_u]Noah[/name_u] or [name_u]Noa[/name_u]

I’m intrigued to hear your thoughts on this, and maybe some of your own examples.
(P.S: Please tell me if this doesn’t make any sense. Being articulate is not my strongest subject)

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Oh, it for sure makes sense. I can’t tell you why but I prefer [name_f]Scarlett[/name_f] , [name_f]Lilliana[/name_f], [name_m]Phillip[/name_m], and [name_u]Noah[/name_u] even though the pronunciation is not affected. They seem more…balanced? In how they look…

Others:

[name_f]Lilly[/name_f] vs [name_f]Lily[/name_f] (Lilly looks better to me)
[name_f]Alison[/name_f] vs [name_u]Allison[/name_u] (Allison looks waaay better to me)
[name_f]Jemma[/name_f] vs [name_f]Gemma[/name_f] (Jemma looks waaaay better to me…)
[name_f]Hana[/name_f] vs [name_f]Hannah[/name_f] (Hannah looks waaaay better to me…unless it’s a Japanese context).

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I prefer the same spellings as you. I also prefer [name_f]Isobel[/name_f] to [name_f]Isabelle[/name_f], and [name_f]Catherine[/name_f] or [name_f]Katharine[/name_f] to [name_f]Katherine[/name_f].

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This is a hotbutton topic on Swedish language naming sites! It gets heated often, and it usually devolves into people accusing each other of being either snooty and formal, or (more often), working class. There’s easentially three camps:

  • the new Swedish spelling camp (who tend to want easily parsed spellings that reflect current Swedish sound patterns.)
  • the old Swedish spelling camp (who tend to like the spellings common before the many language reforms about a hundred years ago.)
  • the international spelling camp (who want spellings that are more likely to be recognized in English/French/Spanish speaking countries.)
Take a name like [name_f]Eleanore[/name_f] / [name_f]Eleanor[/name_f] / **Elinor** / [name_f]Ellinor[/name_f]
  • [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish would fight over if [name_f]Elinor[/name_f] or [name_f]Ellinor[/name_f] was best (and [name_f]Ellinor[/name_f] would probably win). Some radicals might even suggest Ellinår and be shut down as trying too hard.
  • Old Swedish would go for the secret fifth option: [name_f]Eleonora[/name_f], like the old queens.
  • International would hate [name_f]Ellinor[/name_f] (and Ellinår, but that goes without saying) and debate the others.
[name_u]Or[/name_u] maybe [name_m]Phillip[/name_m] / [name_m]Philip[/name_m] / **Filip**
  • [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish would go for [name_m]Filip[/name_m]
  • Old Swedish would debate between [name_m]Philip[/name_m] and [name_m]Filip[/name_m]
  • International would debate [name_m]Philip[/name_m] and [name_m]Phillip[/name_m] but probably chose [name_m]Philip[/name_m]
As for [name_u]Noa[/name_u] / **Noah** / [name_m]Noak[/name_m]
  • [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish: [name_u]Noa[/name_u], like in the current Bible
  • Old Swedish: [name_m]Noak[/name_m], like in the older translations.
  • International: [name_u]Noah[/name_u]

[name_f]Scarlett[/name_f] / [name_f]Scarlet[/name_f] and [name_f]Liliana[/name_f] / [name_f]Lilliana[/name_f] are uncommon here so here’s some other debates that come up often:

Firstly, **Karl** / [name_m]Carl[/name_m]
  • [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish says [name_m]Karl[/name_m]
  • Old Swedish could go either way depending on what spelling were used in their history books as kids. The debate will get very heated.
  • International choses [name_m]Carl[/name_m].

(I think [name_m]Carl[/name_m] looks prettier but it is less intuitive)

Secondly, **Gustav** / [name_m]Gustaf[/name_m]
  • [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish says [name_m]Gustav[/name_m]
  • Old Swedish says [name_m]Gustaf[/name_m]
  • International says: what if we just call him [name_u]August[/name_u] instead?
Thirdly **Love** / [name_u]Lowe[/name_u]
  • [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish says [name_u]Love[/name_u], only for boys
  • Old Swedish says [name_u]Love[/name_u], as a nickname for [name_m]Ludvig[/name_m]
  • International is split in two minds. One says “Why can’t [name_u]Love[/name_u] be a unisex name? It works for girls too!” The other says “How dare you call a boy [name_u]Love[/name_u]? Too girly! Don’t you know what that means in [name_f]English[/name_f]? Spell it [name_u]Lowe[/name_u] if you must!”

(I am very much in the “spell it [name_u]Love[/name_u], it is a diminutive of Ludvig” camp, but I do think it’s cool for any gender)

Finally, names with a silent H, such as [name_f]Hannah[/name_f] / [name_f]Hanna[/name_f], [name_f]Sara[/name_f] / [name_f]Sarah[/name_f], and [name_f]Elisabet[/name_f] / [name_f]Elisabeth[/name_f]
  • [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish choses the options without the extra H (which doesn’t impact pronounciation here anyway)
  • Old Swedish could go either way depending on if they want to be extra fancy (adding a silent H is considered fancy in some social circles and considered to be “trying too hard” in others)
  • International goes for the option with the extra H, and might even spell it [name_f]Elizabeth[/name_f] with a Z (which doesn’t impact pronounciation here either)

(I flip flop on what I prefer here)

These three groups are loosely defined, especially since there’s typically only two options to choose between. Usually it’s the [name_u]New[/name_u] Swedish names and some of the International names (especially ones that were imported recently like [name_f]Lily[/name_f] / [name_f]Lilly[/name_f] or Elliot) that are accused of being lower class. The ones accused of being snooty tends to be the Old Swedish names and some of the International names that were imported a long time ago (Philip, Josephine).

They typically all come together to laugh at a fourth category of namers, who I have not met once in real life, that chose incredibly intricate spellings. The one they always talk about is [name_m]Kevin[/name_m] spelled Cewinn, who I have never once seen either online or in the analoge world.

Yes, it can get mean sometimes. I tend to not engage on the Swedish forums because of just that. I still read them because it’s captivating to see what values people read into the very same name, depending on the spelling

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I don’t think I’d of ever thought of [name_u]Sweden[/name_u] having a naming culture so divisive, but I found your post incredibly interesting. I guess it also shows how names and social classes can be so intertwined, and opinions of names can depend on your background.

[name_f]May[/name_f] I ask a quick question:

. Why was the language (and therefore naming system) reformed?

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I do think spellings can change the vibe - sometimes they just look more visually appealing? [name_f]Scarlett[/name_f] feels more balanced - 4 and 4. [name_f]Liliana[/name_f] looks less complicated - same with [name_m]Philip[/name_m]. [name_u]Noah[/name_u] and [name_u]Noa[/name_u] feel very different to me - [name_u]Noa[/name_u] feels more unisex than [name_u]Noah[/name_u].

Some names where I prefer one spelling to another (for the vibes)

[name_f]Keziah[/name_f] over [name_f]Kezia[/name_f]
[name_u]Darcy[/name_u] over [name_u]Darcey[/name_u] or [name_f]Darcie[/name_f]
[name_u]Peyton[/name_u] over [name_u]Payton[/name_u]
[name_u]Grayson[/name_u] over [name_u]Greyson[/name_u]
[name_u]Reilly[/name_u] over [name_u]Riley[/name_u], [name_u]Rylee[/name_u] etc.
[name_f]Cecilia[/name_f] over [name_f]Cecelia[/name_f]
[name_f]Kaia[/name_f] over [name_u]Kaya[/name_u], [name_f]Kaja[/name_f], or [name_f]Caia[/name_f] (Kaya and [name_f]Kaja[/name_f] give me a different feel, [name_f]Caia[/name_f] feels softer)
[name_f]Mirabel[/name_f] over [name_f]Mirabelle[/name_f]
[name_f]Annabel[/name_f] over [name_f]Annabelle[/name_f] etc
[name_u]Lawrence[/name_u] over [name_u]Laurence[/name_u]

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I prefer [name_u]Eliot[/name_u] over [name_u]Elliot[/name_u], [name_u]Eliott[/name_u], and [name_u]Elliott[/name_u]. It just looks cleaner to me.

I prefer [name_f]Susanna[/name_f] over [name_f]Susannah[/name_f], [name_f]Suzanna[/name_f], or [name_f]Suzannah[/name_f].

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Spelling does change the vibe for me often.
Out of the names you mentioned, I prefer [name_f]Scarlett[/name_f], [name_f]Liliana[/name_f], [name_m]Phillip[/name_m] and [name_u]Noa[/name_u]

Some I can think of:

[name_u]Forest[/name_u] vs [name_m]Forrest[/name_m]
[name_u]Fern[/name_u] vs [name_f]Ferne[/name_f]
[name_u]Juno[/name_u] vs [name_u]Junot[/name_u] + [name_u]Juneau[/name_u]
[name_u]Kit[/name_u] vs [name_m]Kitt[/name_m]
[name_u]Vivian[/name_u] vs [name_f]Vivienne[/name_f]
[name_f]Jane[/name_f] vs [name_f]Jayne[/name_f]
[name_u]Ivy[/name_u] vs [name_f]Ivey[/name_f]

I guess I prefer the simpler spellings of these names!

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I have strong spelling preferences

[name_f]Katharine[/name_f] over [name_f]Katherine[/name_f]
[name_f]Cecelia[/name_f] over [name_f]Cecilia[/name_f]
[name_f]Karley[/name_f] over [name_f]Carly[/name_f]
[name_f]Susanna[/name_f] and [name_f]Suzanna[/name_f] over [name_f]Susannah[/name_f]
[name_f]Savanna[/name_f] over [name_f]Savannah[/name_f]
[name_f]Laia[/name_f] over [name_f]Leia[/name_f]
[name_f]Carmella[/name_f] over [name_f]Carmela[/name_f]
[name_f]Scarlet[/name_f] over [name_f]Scarlett[/name_f]
[name_f]Starr[/name_f] over [name_f]Star[/name_f]

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Ok, Swedish language history lesson.

More detailed backstory

Old Norse split away from the more southern Germanic languages. Then Old norse slowly developed into a western version and an eastern version. The eastern version later became [name_m]Danish[/name_m], Norweigan and Swedish, and as such we can mostly understand each other. However, we have all evolved as different languages since before we had written languages. Almost all the people who used to be literate in [name_u]Sweden[/name_u] were the nobles and the clergy, and they almoat exclusively wrote in Latin and Greek. Whenever people did need to write in Swedish, there was no clear “right” way to spell stuff.

[name_u]Sweden[/name_u] was also occupied by [name_m]Denmark[/name_m] into a forced union for a couple hundred years or so. Exactly five hundred years ago this year, we drove away the Danes from Stockholm and got a new king: [name_m]Gustaf[/name_m] Eriksson Vasa. (Fun fact, he wasn’t called Vasa at all until 200 years after he was appointed, some people spell it Wasa, and he himself spelled his own name [name_f]Gusta[/name_f] and Gösta sometimes.) He made [name_u]Sweden[/name_u] a protestant country (mostly because he didn’t want the pope to meddle in his affairs and because he wanted to use the church’s silver to pay off a debt to Lübeck, not because of religious resons). This meant we had to get a Bible in Swedish. This was compleated in 1541. It is in this bible the first versions of the letters Å, Ä, and Ö appear. The Bible became the spelling standard.

[name_m]Denmark[/name_m] did the same thing, but chose slightly different letters for those three sounds: Å, Æ, Ø. Norway would be tugged back and fourth between [name_u]Sweden[/name_u] and [name_m]Denmark[/name_m] for hundreds of years. The languages all still seemed to choose mostly the same spellings for words. For the most part, they kept the same spellings from the 1500s until the late 1800s and early 1900s. By that point, pronounciation had drifted a lot. Many people couldn’t understand the other two languages in sound, but they could in writing.

In the 1840s, [name_u]Sweden[/name_u] got a law that said all kids had to go to school for at least six years. By the 1880s, teachers were upset that the kids would take years to learn how to read and write, and some never managed. The left was especially upset, because someone who can’t read will have a hard time engaging in politics and voting, and this was around the same time we had a lot of voting rights movements. The left wanted to simplify the spelling, so that anyone could sound out the letters to understand what the newspapers said. The right, on the other hand, wanted to highlight the heritage and history of the Swedish language. They wanted to keep the old spellings that were similar to the [name_m]Danish[/name_m] and Norweigan ones, so that when kids did learn to read Swedish, they would have learnt to read [name_m]Danish[/name_m] and Norwegian too, which would allow for international communication.

It ended up being a compromise. Some the spelling changes the teachers asked for were implemented, others not. So the word “rödt” (red) changed spelling to “rött”, but “och” (and) did not change spelling to “åkk”. Names already given to people usually did not change unless that person was straight up communist, but old names often got new spellings on newborns. Conservatives took about 20 years to adjust to the changes in their newspapers etc, liberals about 10 years, and leftists started before the decision was official.

This meant that for many years there was one “easy, intuitive, leftist” spelling, and one “historical, patriotic, conservative” spelling, and people did judge you for which you used, both on your newborn and just for writing letters, shopping lists etc. Eventually the newer spelling took over as it was used in all official documents, schools and childrens’ books, and later on all newspapers and books overall.

The names still remain in both forms to this day. But it has been so long, that in many cases people don’t know which spelling is the old one and which is the new one. Then you get discussions like “Is [name_f]Matilda[/name_f] the commie spelling that removed our dear H, or is [name_f]Mathilda[/name_f] a vain attempt of the uneducated to seem historically grounded by throwing in a random letter where it doesn’t belong?”

[name_m]Even[/name_m] more info

There’s currently two Norweigan languages. They’re called Nynorsk and Bokmål. One is more similar to [name_m]Danish[/name_m] and the other is more true to pronounciation but I don’t remember which is which. Both Norweigan and [name_m]Danish[/name_m] have had spelling reforms so the difference between the languages seem bigger now, although about 90 % of words are essentially the same still.

Another thing is that [name_m]Danish[/name_m] and Norwegian girl names tend to end in E more often than Swedish girl names. So you get stuff like [name_f]Lise[/name_f] vs [name_u]Lisa[/name_u], [name_f]Margarethe[/name_f] vs [name_f]Margaretha[/name_f]. And then there’s the ones that used to be really common to the point where there’s several versions within the same country, like [name_m]Olof[/name_m], [name_m]Olov[/name_m], [name_m]Olaf[/name_m], [name_m]Olav[/name_m], [name_u]Ola[/name_u], [name_m]Olle[/name_m], Ulle, Olaus.

The naming reform left a lot of letters obsolete. Letters like Q, W, X, and Z are really not used much at all aside from in names. They used to represent sounds. Now we just use K, S, and V instead in non-name words. Still, we have a lot of sounds with several spellings to make the same noise. For instance, the words

  • justera (adjust)
  • generad (embrarrassed)
  • chaufför (chauffeur)
  • sjö (lake)
  • skjorta (button up shirt)
  • stjärna (star)
  • skepp (ship)
  • schack (chess)
    … all start with the same sound. So we have five letters whose sounds could be spelled with other letters (C, Q, W, X, Z can be replaced with S, K, and V or combinations of them, since they don’t make their own sounds anymore), but a sound that we use all the time doesn’t have a dedicated letter and we just have to learn if this specific word is spelled with j, g, ch, sj, skj, stj, sk, or sch? I’ve been annoyed about this since I was six.
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Thank You So Much :blush: for the information, and that you were willing to take time to write this (I imagine it took a while). [name_f]My[/name_f] inner history nerd finds this incredibly interesting, as it shows how everything in culture (whether it be politics, language, religion or names) is linked. I love finding out the historical backstories of countries and their cultures, and it shows how our social and political beliefs influence our decisions, especially when it comes to naming.

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No problem! I love to write very long texts about history and languages!

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I totally agree that spelling changes the whole vibe of a name. For example, [name_f]Isabelle[/name_f] feels very graceful/elegant/dainty, [name_f]Isobel[/name_f] feels quirky/a little rock and roll, and [name_f]Isabel[/name_f] feels very middle of the road/girl next door.
Other spellings that I think are the most elegant/sophisticated option (not necessarily my personal favorite versions):
[name_f]Madeleine[/name_f]
[name_f]Anneliese[/name_f]
[name_f]Adeline[/name_f]
[name_f]Vivienne[/name_f]
[name_f]Annabel[/name_f]
[name_f]Juliet[/name_f]
[name_f]Lia[/name_f]
[name_m]Nicholas[/name_m]
[name_m]Stephen[/name_m]

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me neither :blush:
yeah i do agree that the spelling can change the vibe! here are some of my preferences

Greyson >>> Grayson
Phillip > Philip
Nicholas >> Nicolas
Stephen > Steven
Elliott >>> Elliot >> Eliot

Cecilia > Cecilia
Isabelle >> Isobel > Isabel
Vivienne > Vivian
Juliet > Juliette
Anabel > Annabelle > Annabel
Catherine > Katharine >> everything else
Eleanor > Elinor >> Eleanore
Sarah > Sara
Suzannah > Susannah > everything else
Peyton > Payton
Ivy >>> Ivey
Jane >>>> Jayne

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love this xx

—my favorites—

alison > allison
sofia > sophia
elisa > eliza
elizabeth > elisabeth
lily = lillie > lilly
beatrice > beatrix
vivien > vivian
mae > may
annabel > annabelle
isabel > isabelle

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For me it would be [name_f]Scarlett[/name_f], [name_f]Liliana[/name_f], [name_m]Phillip[/name_m] and [name_u]Noah[/name_u]! I do love [name_u]Noa[/name_u] but for me it feels incomplete and I would be more inclined to call a girl [name_u]Noa[/name_u].

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