Top 7* Names - Cons for each, please weigh in!

[name]Edit[/name] to add [name]Caio[/name] and Teifi

Thanks to the Berries we have out top 7 boys names for a potential first born son. We want the name to be Welsh, unusual here in [name]Wales[/name], but easy enough to pronounce. We don’t mind having to correct or explain the pronunciation as long as people can actually say the name once it’s been explained which I believe will be fine with our final choices, here in [name]Wales[/name] at least.

We have: Braith, [name]Caio[/name], Cynan, Neirin, [name]Ren[/name], [name]Sulien[/name] and Teifi. Surname is [name]Morgan[/name], middles would either be [name]William[/name] [name]Norman[/name]/[name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] (doesn’t flow well but has the most personal meaning), [name]William[/name] [name]North[/name] or [name]William[/name] [name]Lee[/name].

Here are the cons I can think of for each. I’d love for you to either put my mind at ease or confirm my worries with regards to the cons!:

Braith - Cons: Does sounds lispy? Does it sounds harsh and butch a la [name]Bruce[/name]? I’m more into soft, gentle boys names like [name]Emrys[/name], [name]Harlan[/name] and [name]Theodore[/name]. [name]Will[/name] it be shortened to Bry? Bry reminds me of [name]Bryan[/name] and seems middle aged!

[name]Caio[/name] - Cons: [name]Non[/name]-Welsh speakers will struggle with the pronunciaton, try listening to [name]Iolo[/name] at this link to hear how the second syllable should be said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/livinginwales/sites/howdoisay/names/index.shtml?i - it’s not like [name]Theo[/name] or [name]Milo[/name]! First syllable is [name]KAI[/name]. Also, it has the same initial as [name]Claudia[/name] (our number 1 girls name) and I don’t like repeating initials.

Cynan - Cons: We both like this but isn’t a fav for either of us. The other names were all in the top 4 for both of us, but we both placed Cynan at 7. It wasn’t low enough to be scrapped (since we removed the 2 lowest off both our lists) but wasn’t a fav either. It’s inoffensive but maybe it’s a little bland too? Also there are no cute nn’s I can think of and like [name]Caio[/name] it has the same initial as [name]Claudia[/name], and because of the “an” ending it probably sounds the worst with the surname [name]Morgan[/name].

Neirin - Cons: It has the cute nn [name]Nye[/name] but does [name]Nye[/name] sound feminine? I know [name]Naomi[/name]'s who go by Nai (said the same way) so that concerns me. I think it sounds better than Cynan but it doesn’t sound great with [name]Morgan[/name] either.

[name]Ren[/name] - Cons: I adore this one but have two huge concerns! The [name]Ren[/name] and Stimpy association? Although I don’t think it’ll be a problem in my child’s generation, I worry our friends, siblings and cousins will all think of it. The second bigger concern though is the authenticity of it’s origins. Any name history buffs out there? I find lots of sources out there stating it is a Welsh name meaning ruler but also many sources saying it’s Japenese and English so not sure. Maybe all these origins are equally true? Maybe it’s a name like [name]Suri[/name] which has several meanings. Also it has the same initial as [name]Rafferty[/name] but this would probably only be used if we had at least 3 maybe 4 boys so it’s not a huge concern, and finally I worry that [name]Wren[/name] is becoming popular for girls and it could seem feminine.

[name]Sulien[/name] - Cons: It doesn’t sound at all good with [name]William[/name], in fact it sounds silly…which leads me nicely to the second con, sometimes I think the first two syllables sound like “silly”. I do try to emphasise the “seal” sound of the first syllable but when I say it fast it sounds more like silly-un. Also I think this is the name that would encounter the most pronunciation problems.

Teifi - Cons: Does it clash with one of my fav girls names [name]Ivy[/name]? Does it sound too nicknamey and possibly not as sophisticated as some of our other choices? ([name]Claudia[/name], [name]Lennox[/name], [name]Penelope[/name] etc). It’s pronounced TAVE-ee.

I can’t wait to hear whether you agree or disagree with my cons lists! Which do you think are ones you could live with and which are deal breakers?

My favorite from your list is Braith. I like it with [name]Emrys[/name] and [name]Rafferty[/name] and since it doesn’t have the ‘n’ ending I think you’ll have the best flow both with ln [name]Morgan[/name] and with potential middles [name]William[/name] and [name]Norman[/name]. It does not sound middle aged to me.

Braith [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Braith [name]William[/name] [name]North[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]

[name]Sulien[/name] - I don’t think it sounds bad with [name]William[/name], though Braith is better. [name]How[/name] often do you think you’ll use his middle name? I use my children’s regularly so need them to flow as one group, but if you’re only using it officially then it’s not such a huge deal.

The silly-un could be a problem if you do it regularly. What would a potential nn be - Suli pn [name]Seely[/name] a la Bones?

the only [name]Ren[/name] name I could find is Japanese.

Oh I love Suli/[name]Seely[/name]! I hadn’t even thought of that although it seems obvious lol. I think I prefer the [name]Seely[/name] spelling actually, this does make me like it more actually.

I just find [name]Sulien[/name] [name]William[/name] rhyme which worries me.

I’m not sure with middle names. In my family we tend to say full names as kind of an affectionate term occassionally, e.g. if my grandmother would talk to me about my cousins she might say “how’s my A___ M___?” Using both first and middle names, but no not on a daily basis. And [name]Sulien[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Norman[/name] is a mouthful so it’s unlikely we’d use it often. Would [name]Sulien[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] work better? But then the “n’s” blend into each other in [name]Sulien[/name] and [name]Norman[/name]. I wish [name]Norman[/name] had had a middle name! Lol.

With regards to the middles, [name]William[/name] is my grandfather’s name and I love it and have always wanted to use it, and [name]Norman[/name] is my partner’s late grandfather’s name and he had no middle name. Our grandfather’s are our closest male relatives for both of us so to honour these two great men, I think is probably worth more than a name that flows really well. [name]North[/name] is an alternative to [name]Norman[/name] since [name]Norman[/name] means “northener” but I think it’d mean much more to my partner’s family if we used [name]Norman[/name] since they’re more traditional when it comes to honouring people. He usually went by [name]Normy[/name] so that’s an option but it seems a little childish and less sophisticated.

He’s a reference to [name]Ren[/name] being Welsh…probably one of the more reliable looking websites but there are many more: http://www.amethyst-night.com/names/welshmale.html

If you type “[name]Ren[/name] welsh name” into google you’ll find many results, but obviously there are more websites saying it’s a Japanese name.

And @gwensmom - I’m glad you like Braith :slight_smile: [name]Do[/name] you think Bry would be an automatic nn that I couldn’t control? It’s my partners fav and is def one of my favs too.

I like Braith [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name] the best. I think with your surname being [name]Morgan[/name], [name]Norman[/name] has to be the first middle name with [name]William[/name] in between them. Bry would probably be the automatic nn but for non-Welsh speakers the first nn that would pop into our heads would be something like [name]Bray[/name]. All of your four remaining choices, Cynan, Neirin, [name]Ren[/name] and [name]Sulien[/name], end with an “n” so I would hesitate in choosing them as [name]Norman[/name] and [name]Morgan[/name] have enough similar sounds. FYI - I’ve always thought of [name]Ren[/name] as Japanese not Welsh. Regards, [name]Mischa[/name].

Thanks [name]Mischa[/name],

I understand [name]Ren[/name] is mostly known as a Japanese name but that doesn’t mean other origins can’t be right, right? Some names seem to have several origins.

As for the n ending names, I’m past that at this point to be honest. I just want to love the first name so I really don’t care if they end with n anymore as most of the Welsh names we love do anyway! Apart from that my partner’s name ends with an “an” and his surname is obviously [name]Morgan[/name] yet it seems absolutely fine!

I know [name]Norman[/name] [name]Morgan[/name] sounds terrible, but where possible I prefer [name]William[/name] in the first middle slot as it’s the one that’s most important to me and that I like more. It’s only with [name]Sulien[/name] that I might put [name]Norman[/name] first as [name]Sulien[/name] [name]William[/name] sounds silly to me! lol.

[name]Just[/name] to clarify as well, Braith is pronounced BRY-th, kind of like [name]Blythe[/name] with an “r” or [name]Bryce[/name] but with a different ending. It’s not [name]BRAY[/name]-th. Not sure if anyone realised that :S Hopefully you don’t all hate it now you know the pronunciation!

Anyone else want to share your opinions on my worries? :slight_smile:

My fav is Braith. I think it is a strong fantastic name for a boy!

[name]Hi[/name],

Really curieus, how dow you pronounce Neirin? Like Nee-rin or Nai-rin?

Braith - like it, also like Braith [name]William[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]Morgan[/name], I prefer Braith [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]. Reminds me of Breath

Cynan - reminds me of Cyanide. Not really fond of.

Neirin - depending on the pronounciation, I really like Neirin [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name] from your list. And I don’t think [name]Nye[/name] seems feminine. But why want to use a nn when such a pretty name?

[name]Ren[/name] - direct [name]Ren[/name] and Stimpy association. Therefore, no, not really fond of.

[name]Sulien[/name] - like the nn [name]Seely[/name], big con for me would be silly-un. Prefer the [name]Sulien[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name] option again, as it seems to flow better with the names you suggest.

If the family names are important to you, I would definitely go with [name]Norman[/name] and [name]William[/name], not [name]William[/name] and [name]North[/name].

[name]Hope[/name] this helps, good luck…

Thanks do glad you like it! I think it’s our current fav :slight_smile:

2 more to add to the mix that my partners said yes to:

[name]Caio[/name] ([name]KY[/name]-or)
Teifi ([name]TAY[/name]-vee)

What do you all think? :slight_smile:

With a name like Braith I wonder why anyone would shorten it - Bry is not shorter than Braith. I keep trying to imagine a [name]Blythe[/name] going by [name]Bly[/name] (since that name is more familiar to me) and I just don’t see where it would be problematic. But I know you can’t control what nn’s others use, so you’ll have to decide if it’s worth the risk.

On the other hand, I love your new additions! I think I like Teifi best. Is [name]Caio[/name] really [name]Ky[/name]-or? I don’t think non-Welsh would say the r whereas Teifi is actually pretty intuitive once you hear it once.

[name]Hi[/name] Gwensmom,

This is my main concern with the “o” ending Welsh names. They aren’t pronounced the same way as [name]Theo[/name] and [name]Milo[/name], if you listen to [name]Iolo[/name]'s pronunciation at this link it should give you an idea how they’re said, although the man doing the voices is VERY Welsh hehe. http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/livinginwales/sites/howdoisay/names/index.shtml?i

It would grate on me a bit to hear it said [name]CAI[/name]-oh and I know the non-Welsh speakers in mine and my partner’s family will say it that way which is why I’ve generally shied away from the o ending Welsh names, even though there are lots of cute ones! [name]Caio[/name] is one of my favourites though and and so I’m wondering if I can live with some people saying it the “English” way and others saying it the Welsh way. I know on reading it, non-Welsh speakers would automatically say [name]CAI[/name]-oh but is [name]CAI[/name]-or still difficult once you hear it? Or do you think people could get used to saying it that way? A big chunk of my family and some of my friends speak Welsh anyway so it’s not a huge huge concern, it’s more my partner’s family I’d worry about, and I’d worry if we moved to Australia in the future. But I can imagine my [name]MIL[/name] saying [name]CAI[/name]-oh and I think it’d be quite sweet coming from her and I don’t think it’d bother me then! :slight_smile:

So I’m very glad you like Teifi! I’ve loved the nn Tave for Teifion but my partner kept saying no to it, which is why I hadn’t bothered suggesting the very similar Teifi until now. But I thought I’d try it with him today, and turns out he likes it! He feels Teifion is “too much” and Teifi is a lot better so that’s great.

But would Teifi sound terrible with one of my fav girls names [name]Ivy[/name]? [name]Ivy[/name] is probably my second favourite girls name (after [name]Claudia[/name]) but I’ve been leaning towards my partners favourites ([name]Penelope[/name] and [name]Mirabel[/name]) because I think they work better with [name]Claudia[/name], so [name]Ivy[/name]'s not a definite anyway.

This thread has been so helpful!! :slight_smile:

Oh and I forgot to ask, if you like Teifi/[name]Caio[/name], where do they rank compared to my original 5 names? :slight_smile:

Braith - Reminds me also of breath, but I like it a lot! Only tiny critique would be that it also reminds me very slightly of ‘brain’

Cynan - I like this. [name]Cy[/name] is the most lovely nickname, I think. You don’t like [name]Cy[/name]?

Neirin - This to me really clashes in style with [name]Ivy[/name]. It also reminds me girls’ names like [name]Nuria[/name]. Sorry!

[name]Ren[/name] - I like the sound, but it reminds me so strongly of [name]Wren[/name] the bird in sound, and red the colour in spelling, that there’s a tiny bit of an instinctive confusion about it.

[name]Sulien[/name] - Reminds me of Sullen.

Cynan would be my favourite (I think it is not at all bland- exciting and colourful. Maybe because it sounds like [name]Cyan[/name]?)
Closely followed though, by Braith. Which is so unexpected and fun!

[name]Caio[/name]- Used to love this, but have really gone off it. To me, it seems to have a classical beginning ‘[name]Cai[/name]’ like [name]Caius[/name] does, but the ‘o’ gives it a nicknamey feel like [name]Milo[/name]. I don’t know, there’s just something mismatched about it in my eyes.

Teifi- [name]Love[/name] the sound of it, actually! Really sweet on a little boy. However, also a little nicknamey sounding, and I’m not a fan of the spelling (sorry I sound so negative in this comment)
[name]How[/name] about [name]Octavius[/name] or even Tavius, which lend themselves to the nickname [name]Tavey[/name]? [name]Both[/name] those go really nicely with [name]Ivy[/name] too imo.

Good luck. I’m eagerly awaiting the name you end up going with.

harrietsmummy X

Good luck. You have lovely, eccentric tastes. But they feel inspired by

[name]Hi[/name] Harrietsmummy, thanks so much for the detailed and thoughtful response :slight_smile:

I know I babbled quite a bit in my original post so maybe you didn’t read it all but we’re actually looking for a Welsh name, as nice as Tavius is! We’re Welsh and live in [name]Wales[/name] too so pronunciation isn’t a [name]MAJOR[/name] concern.

[name]Just[/name] to clarify, Cynan is pronounced like CUH-nan (where the [name]Cy[/name] sounds like the “cu” in cup) so [name]Cy[/name] ([name]Si[/name]) isn’t an appropriate nn.

Braith is actually pronounced like [name]Blythe[/name] with an r or [name]Bryce[/name] with a “th” ending, so that’s BRY-th not [name]BRAY[/name]-th.

I totally agree with what you said about [name]Ren[/name] and is one of the reasons I worry about it.

[name]Sulien[/name] is actually said seel-ee-un so although it looks a little like Sullen it doesn’t sound like it and actually means sun born :slight_smile: We’re thinking [name]Seely[/name] as a nn :slight_smile:

I do worry about Teifion sounding nicknamey. I personally preferred Teifion (TAVE-ee-on) but my partner feels its too much :frowning:

So do you feel differently about any of the names now I’ve clarified the pronunciations? Especially Cynan? Thanks again!

Ok so the list is shorter now! We’ve decided [name]Ren[/name] should go cos we’re not convinced of it’s origins, Cynan is going cos there are no cute nicknames and it’s been bottom of our list for a while, and [name]Caio[/name] is going cos my partner can’t pronounce it correctly haha!

So now we have:

Braith (BRY-th)
Neirin nn [name]Nye[/name] (NAY-rin/NAI)
[name]Sulien[/name] nn [name]Seely[/name] (seel-ee-un)
Teifi nn Tave ([name]TAY[/name]-vee)

Opinions on the final 4 please? :slight_smile:

I love that you want to be traditional and respectful and yet still unique!! [name]Sulien[/name] is my favorite out of the four but I’m not exactly sold on the full name: [name]Sulien[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]Morgan[/name] or [name]Sulien[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]. Have you thought about combining middle names? For example Willman, Willnor, or Liaman? Or maybe saving one of the names for another baby? I only ask because the full name is such a mouthful! But I totally understand you wanting to pay respect to the grandfathers!

Good luck!

Thanks so much :slight_smile: I’m not sure about combining the names as the two men never met and one has passed away now, plus I like 2 middles and really want to use [name]William[/name], but [name]Norman[/name] is up for change possibly. I know [name]Norman[/name] would make my partners family very happy, but I also know it doesn’t sound great with [name]Morgan[/name]. Other options are:

[name]Normy[/name] - Normans nickname that he always went by
[name]North[/name] - since one possible meaning of [name]Norman[/name] is [name]North[/name] man and he did come from the [name]North[/name] of [name]England[/name]!
Sidwell - Normans surname
[name]Lee[/name] - my partners middle name

What would you go with? I just know his family aren’t into creative honouring really, they prefer using the actual name! :slight_smile:

I still like [name]Sulien[/name].

Teifi is cute, but reminds me of the derogatory rhyme ‘[name]Taffy[/name] was a Welshman, [name]Taffy[/name] was a theif’. And I’m not big on cute -i/y names for boys. They’re ok as nn, but if i had to choose between Teifion or Teifi I’d go with Teifion with a nn of Teifi.

And I’m a big fan of 2 middle names.

Hmm, I hate that rhyme so wouldn’t want to remind people of it! Lol. But Teifi is with a “v” sound and [name]Taffy[/name] is with a “f” sound so they’re not very similar to me. It reminds me more of the river Teifi in [name]West[/name] [name]Wales[/name] which is a nice association :slight_smile:

I agree though that Teifion nn Teifi would be ideal but I’ve mentioned Teifion to him many times and he’s never warmed to it :frowning:

Maybe I should check out more river and place names, might find something I haven’t thought of!

I’m a big fan of 2 middles too, especially since I want to honour so many people! I guess it’d be:

Braith [name]William[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Braith [name]William[/name] [name]Lee[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Braith [name]William[/name] [name]North[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Braith [name]William[/name] Sidwell [name]Morgan[/name]

Nerin [name]William[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Neirin [name]William[/name] [name]Lee[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Neirin [name]William[/name] [name]North[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Neirin [name]William[/name] Sidwell [name]Morgan[/name]

[name]Sulien[/name] Sidwell [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
[name]Sulien[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
[name]Sulien[/name] [name]Davies[/name] Sidwell [name]Morgan[/name] ([name]Davies[/name] is [name]William[/name]'s surname)
[name]Sulien[/name] [name]Bryan[/name] Sidwell [name]Morgan[/name] ([name]Bryan[/name] is [name]William[/name]'s middle name which he was called by his siblings and parents)

Teifi [name]William[/name] [name]Norman[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Teifi [name]William[/name] [name]Lee[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]
Teifi [name]William[/name] Sidwell [name]Morgan[/name]
Teifi [name]William[/name] [name]North[/name] [name]Morgan[/name]

[name]Sulien[/name]'s the hardest to pair with middles as I really want to use [name]William[/name] and don’t like [name]Sulien[/name] [name]William[/name] together. Neirin sounds the worst with the surname as they both are 2 syllables ending with N. I’m really loving the final 4 though. Right now I still love [name]Emrys[/name] more but I think given time I could end up loving one of these more, I just don’t know which one yet! I think finding the perfect combo for each name would help narrow it down.

This is exciting!! :slight_smile: Getting closer to a decision!

Could I point out that [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name] was the name of the man who first translated the bible into Welsh? And if you use the middle combo [name]Norman[/name] [name]William[/name] the name [name]William[/name] [name]Morgan[/name] will be in there. It’s not a huge link and I don’t think too many people are aware of this fact I just thought I’d let you know. Sorry, I always remember this fact, I learned a song about the guy when I was younger so whenever I hear the names [name]William[/name] and [name]Morgan[/name] together I think of it :slight_smile: