@mirais Ooo, milline kokkusattumus, et just Sinu nimed ühed mu suured lemmikud on!!! Ma viskan pilgu peale! Aitäh!
I was reading yesterday about it (what is Estonian and what is not), there was a whole big article, and I don’t remember at all what it was called. Hmmmm… Good point actually about the (3)1!
@_thelittlefairywren
We totally have nicknames as first’s! I read it in Estonian as well, and I think the official translation is a bit questionable! I think what they meant was a name that is a la ‘Rapunzel’ and then a nickname of that… Or?
It used to be “if it is unisex, you need a gendered middle”. But since for example Andrea became unisex name , the limitations are smaller now for those two lol. Although there is still some very annoying legislator who forces a gendered middle name for your girl Andrea (but it is way rarer now!)
Hungary has very strict laws when it comes to names, both first and last. The Hungarian Research Centre for Linguistics is in charge of deciding what names are added to the offical list of names that can be registered. This list is uploaded to their website as a pdf file and is updated every month with the new additions. From this year they introduced a new website where you can search names by specifications like gender, origin, meaning and so on. Here’s the new website if anyone’s interested: http://utonevkereso.nytud.hu/ It is in Hungarian but I think you can get a decent translation with google. And here are the list for boys: http://archive.nytud.hu/oszt/nyelvmuvelo/utonevek/osszesffi.txt and girls: http://archive.nytud.hu/oszt/nyelvmuvelo/utonevek/osszesnoi.txt.
They are very strict about what can go on the list too. First of all, every name must be feminine or masculine, we don’t have any unisex names. I don’t know why but it is what it is. Okay, I kinda know why, our government is super conservative and homophpbic/transphobic so…
You can request new names to be added to the list but there are strict rules, the process is long and they might not accept your request. If you want to request a name that is used in a different language, you can only use the Hungarian spelling according to the pronounciation. For example we don’t have [name_f]Jennifer[/name_f], we only have Dzsennifer and we don’t have [name_m]Brian[/name_m], only [name_m]Brájen[/name_m]. You also need to be prepared with proof that the name you requested is commonly used or was commonly used somewhere or some time period, it has to be clear that the name is feminine or masculine, it can’t mean or be associated with anything that would cause disatvantage to the bearer (whatever that means), and if we already have our own version of the name (for example for [name_u]James[/name_u] we already have Jakab) they are less likely to accept it. Again, here’s a link to the principles they use to determine if a name is acceptable or not :https://nytud.hu/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/alapelvek.docx.pdf It’s also in Hungarian but google really does give a decent translation if you are interested.
We can only have two first names and two last names max. The last names must be hyphenated and the first names cannot be hyphenated. Also our surnames come first and given names come second, so one would not be named [name_u]John[/name_u] [name_m]Smith[/name_m] but Kovács [name_m]János[/name_m] (smith=kovács, John=János).
The surnames have their own set of rules that I will not go into now and don’t even get me started on married names for women. I think that is about it, I hope it’s at least somewhat understandable… It kinda sounds a mess reading back but I don’t want to start over
@Bogi-Wan_Kenobi Wow! This is strict!
I remember reading that Iceland had something similar- that you can only choose a name from their list and some popular classic names are a no go there! And no C in names for example !
@Rosebeth Do you know if this no letter ‘C’ thing is actually true?
“The registrar shall refuse to include in the birth certificate given names that are inappropriate, or correspond to existing given names unless they are also common given names.” [1]
“Examples of inappropriate given names:
ridiculous names;
swear words;
name made up of lots of names.” [2]
Yeah, they are pretty strict and they do affect our (as in Hungarians) attitude towards names. Like most people I know are pretty conservative when it comes to naming their children and when we encounter a unique name we tend to say things like “I would never do that to my kid!” or “But what will that poor child do when they grow up? The can’t be a doctor/lawyer/teacher/whatever with a name like that!” Nowadays I do see a change in these things, more and more parents opt for more unique names but it’s still there and I think our strict naming traditions and laws are to blame.
From my experience, gender bending is generally allowed for middle names, but not first names. With some names you can actually make a case for them being gender neutral rather than gender bending, but that doesn’t always work out, and you obviously can’t argue that a name like Elisabeth for example is gender neutral.
In [name_f]Iceland[/name_f], where I’m from (but don’t live anymore), you have to pick a name from the list of officially approved names. If the name’s not on the list you can submit a request with the Icelandic Naming Committee, and they’ll decide if they think the name is acceptable. If so, the name will be added to the list.
In general a name has to be compatible with Icelandic grammar, contain only letters that are in the Icelandic alphabet and not cause the bearer embarrassment. Until recently the name had to be clearly gendered. Unisex names did not exist and gender bending definitely wasn’t allowed.
The rules are becoming less strict now. All names in theory are gender neutral. And some surprisingly modern names have been allowed. But everything still has to go through the Naming Committee.
You mean that the letter C isn’t allowed? There are some C names on the list of approved names, mostly from foreign languages. The spelling Christopher instead of Kristófer is allowed, for example, and also names like Charles, Caritas & Cleopatra, and C names that are somewhat adapted to Icelandic spelling like Cæsar and Cýrus. This is pretty recent though.
That seems very bold and trusting! While I agree people should be able to use names they love, I also feel their should be some level of protection against children being labelled something degrading or inappropriate.
That makes total sense! I hadn’t thought of it that way. This rule woukd only be necessary in counties where these titles hold any value.
Oh that’s sad. Honour names should be the complete opposite of that - a way to genuinely let someone know what they mean to you. Being forceful just ruins the meaning.
In the context of the both the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland (two countries where I have experience living): I’m not aware of any specific laws. You can name your child almost anything. There’s no prohibition on diacritical marks in names either (pointing that out because I don’t think they’re allowed in the USA).
I believe some names can technically be rejected or challenged if they’re deemed to be offensive, but that’s so rare I’ve only heard of it happening once (I remember a news story about a woman in Wales with serious mental health issues who wanted to call her baby Cyanide, but the name was rejected by the registrar).
Nothing unusual in [name_f]Russia[/name_f]. You cannot use numerals (i.e., you cannot give birth to [name_m]Ludwig[/name_m] XIV), alphanumeric designations (there was a precedent with R2D2), titles and ranks, and “offensive” names.
Yes, remember that there are many nationalities, we have a large Muslim community and many people coming from other countries, so there are many people with national names
have a form, content, and written form that conforms to the established given name practice
be established for the same gender
not be obviously of family name type
when given to an underage person as their first given name, not be the same name as an alive sibling or half-sibling’s first name, or of -son/-daughter form.
Exceptions may be made if 5 of more people of the same gender in the population register already have the name, on grounds of a connection to a foreign state where the name conforms to the established practice of that state, due to religious custom, or if another specific reason is deemed to apply.
I do not like the gender specific rule which means gender neutral names are practically nonexistent - once a gender neutral name becomes popular for one sex or the other, it gets “locked” to that sex and you can no longer use it for the other.
“have a form, content, and written form that conforms to the established given name practice” means that you usually have to use the Finnish or Swedish spelling of a name (Swedish being the second official language of Finland) although this doesn’t apply if you’re of a different ethnic origin/can demonstrate that the name is used in your culture.
If anyone’s curious, here’s a list of rejected names from 2022 (I’ve explained why I think they were rejected, if I know)
Summary
Ahdin - the genetive form of Ahti, so belonging to Ahti
Aicksar - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
Alfred’s daughter - would probably be okay as a middle name, but you need to give your child their own first name
Amnell - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
Annatar - this one surprised me, -tar is a feminine ending in a lot of old mythological Finnish names, and Anna is obviously well used. Maybe there’s a brand or other connection I’m missing?
Appelsiinikki - appelsiini means orange and the -kki ending makes it a diminutive, so basically “Little Orange”
Azazel - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
Buddha - probably considered potentially offensive, given that it’s the name of a religious figure
Caladrius - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
Eklander - guessing this is a surname
Ellé - rejected due to the spelling I assume, the Finnish spelling would be Elle
Ephimachius - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
Felín - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
Filipecki - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
Haades - Finnish spelling of Hades, probably considered too dark/negative?
Jezebel - negative connotations again, also doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling
johannes - Johannes is a normal name, but someone tried to name their child johannes all lower case
Juhoha - Juho is a common name, the added -ha ending would have gotten this one rejected
Julma-Hurtta - julma = cruel, hurtta = colloquial word for a dog; basically Cruel-Hound
Kaaos* - Finnish for chaos
Kallen-Kallela - a spin on the name of a famous Finnish painter, Akseli Gallen-Kallela
Klapi - a colloquial word for a piece of firewood (I wonder if the parents were riffing off of the English Chip?)
Koivuniitty - Birch meadow, rejected because it’s a surname
Kukurtaja - apparently a colloquial term for someone who is miserly / a Scrooge? I’d never heard this one before
Lord - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling, also titles like this probably get rejected in general
Lucifer - potentially religiously offensive again
Maï - rejected due to spelling, Mai would have been fine
Mielivalta - Finnish for arbitrariness
Nat8hquhs - well, this would have been rejected almost everywhere…
Nex - doesn’t adhere to Finnish phonetics/spelling, also probably not “name-like” enough
Otawa - spelling Otava would be fine
Paperi - Finnish for paper
Pelekkä - colloquial word for mere / just / simple
Punpuli - Pumpuli is Finnish for cottonwool
Puukko Armo - Knife Mercy
Raivomieli - Rage minded
Rikia - I don’t know, it seems fine to me… maybe it sounds too close to rikkoa, which means to break
Rody’s son - would probably be okay as a middle name, but you need to give your child their own first name
Rosmo - might have been rejected because it sounds similar to rosvo, meaning thief / burglar / criminal
samsam - lower case, but Samsam would probably have been rejected as well, due to not fitting the Finnish naming conventions
Saturnius - probably deemed so unusual that it could cause the child harm? I like it though
Sheikki - Finnish for sheikh
Sorína - maybe Sorina would have been accepted? I’m not sure
Suudelmitar - suudelma means kiss, so the name translates to Kisser, basically
Taawi - Taavi is the accepted spelling
Tanyá - Tanja is the accepted spelling
Tsygä - I’m guessing this is slang for something but I do not know what doesn’t sound like a name
Tuoni - short form of Tuonela, the land of the dead in Finnish mythology
Uakke - sounds like a dialectal form of the Swedish name Åke to me
Uhka - Finnish for threat
Ukonvaaja - the name of the ax yielded by the Finnish god of thunder, Ukko, I think it would make a cool name tbh!
Wiiru - Viiru is the usual spelling, means stripe in Finnish
Åriz - doesn’t adhere to Finnish (or in this case probably Swedish) phonetics - maybe Åris would have been ok?
Yikes! I’m glad they said no! Sounds like no names that are considered offensive, demeaning, or abusive is a pretty universal law (even in countries that don’t technically have “rules”).
I think it would be hard to ban “foreign” names because names come from lots of places and have evolved from lots of languages. It would also be very culturally insensitive in any country that has a reasonable immigrant population.
doesn’t sound like a name