We think we’ve now finally settled on [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] if this little one - due in TWO WEEKS!! - turns out to be a girl… Neither of us feels that the [name_f]Vivienne[/name_f] spelling is right for us so we’re choosing between [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] or [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u]. [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] is my husband’s grandmother’s name. Here are the pros and cons as I see them:
[name_u]Vivian[/name_u]
PROS
It’s as phonetic as it gets
It lends itself more naturally to nicknames and their spellings, [name_f]Viva[/name_f], [name_f]Vi[/name_f], [name_f]Vivi[/name_f] etc.
It seems simple and not too try hard
CONS
It’s becoming more and more popular over here (UK)
It isn’t, strictly speaking, his grandma’s name…
[name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u]
More obviously honourific
We both like the quirky nature of the spelling
It’s Cornish as well as Latin (and I’m Cornish)
CONS This is my main fear! It might seem like we’re trying to be controversial, like replacing a ‘c’ with a ‘k’ for no reason…
It might seem like we’re being pretentious - the Cornish family name belongs to a baronetcy from my part of the county
The nicknames don’t flow so easily on paper
We have a complicated surname (double-barrelled with Italian elements) which already requires spelling out. Are we setting up our child to have to spell each part of her name for years to come?! We’re giving her (if she is a she an entirely phonetic mn, btw).
What do you think berries? Should we go with our heads ([name_u]Vivian[/name_u]) or hearts ([name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u])?!
Thank you in advance for any thoughts. I can’t see the wood for the trees anymore…
Honestly, I’m sorry, I did think it was an awful kre8tiv spelling when I saw [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u]. I thought it was a joke. (I’m sorry, I now see the error of my ways!) I think it’s a great name, and they’re all tied to the same name, so with a complicated surname, I would probably just opt for [name_u]Vivian[/name_u]. Although I am on an international name kick, so the idea of a variant from another culture intrigues me. [name_m]How[/name_m] common are Cornish names in the UK? If they’re fairly prevalent, then I wouldn’t be too worried about it. It honors your heritage (and your husband’s grandmother). It sounds really significant, but only you can tell how hard it would be to be a little one with the name [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u], with a long, complicated, Italian, double-barreled surname. [name_f]Do[/name_f] you think she’d be proud to wear all that history and significance? Or would it just be a burden? Maybe others who are in the UK might be able to better shed any light on it, but I would think it’d be quite hard to live with the name [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u], and unless people knew it was a legitimate variation, I’m afraid they’d assume some not-so-cool things about you as parents, as well.
Honestly, though, I think if you use [name_u]Vivian[/name_u], I don’t think it’ll honor your husband’s grandma any less. It still sounds the same (right?), and looks very similar. [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] came from [name_u]Vivian[/name_u], yes?
I would stick to [name_u]Vivian[/name_u]. Honestly, [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] gives me a headache. If your surname is already complicated, I would stick to the easiest spelling.
I’m sorry but [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] looks like a made up name/a joke. It’s very unappealing in appearance and it isn’t easy to read whatsoever. Really, [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] is just a kre8teev spelling of [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] - they’re the exact same name, so [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] will honour her just the same - and will make life a lot easier on your daughter.
I don’t like [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] at all, it looks like a Y and a V threw up on a name. I [name_u]LOVE[/name_u] [name_u]Vivian[/name_u], and would stick to that spelling especially if your name is already complicated.
Hmmm… It’s not actually a kre8tiv spelling as it dates from the 12th century in Cornwall but the fact that you think it is speaks volumes Lawsonhaley! Thanks for your feedback Ashthedreamer - really helpful and nicely put. Cornish names are increasingly common but there are many that I wouldn’t use, particularly for girls, as they involve lots of ‘k’ and ‘z’ parts which could give a similar impression. I’m not so worried about people thinking we’re chavvy but more about how complicated the whole thing could get so maybe sticking to [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] is a better option. [name_f]My[/name_f] husband will be pretty upset I think but I have explained to him a couple of times now that when his great grandparents gave his (maternal) grandmother [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] she wasn’t competing with the Scottish/Italian double-barrelled surname as well, but a phonetic single surname.
Now, if I had my druthers it’d be [name_u]Vivien[/name_u] rather than [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] but that may be a step too far for the old boy to deal with…
Oh, is it chavs that generally use misspellings/horrendous spellings over there? I’m not from the UK personally, but am fascinated by naming practices there. I have several British friends, and they’ve all tried to explain the whole chavvy-ness thing to me, but it’s hard to relate to, since there’s no real American equivalent. I was just thinking of the fact that (at least here, in the United States!) a good percentage of the people who use purposely misspelled names are either teen moms or the inner-city, lower-class, type people. From what I understand, chav doesn’t automatically mean low class, but I guess I could see how some might see [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] as chavvy, as well. Hmm.
I usually would tell people to go with their hearts, but I think I’d listen to your head with this one. [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] does still honor your grandmother, but will make life quite a bit easier for your little one. Although you know that your origins of [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] are legit, if you go with it you (and your daughter) will have to develop a thick skin against people assuming you were being creative.
I also find [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] hard to read. The Vyvy sequence is hard on the eyes and it’s hard to tell which one is a V and which one is a y, and the spelling also makes me wonder if I’m supposed to pronounce it more like VIVE-yan (rhymes with FIVE-man) or [name_f]VIV[/name_f]-yan.
I do hope that if you go with [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] your husband isn’t too let-down. It still is a lovely tribute to his grandmother. If you go with [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u], just practice either not caring what people think, or develop a quick explanation, eg: “It’s spelled [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u]. That’s a Cornish spelling, and was her great-grandmother’s name.”
Some people can be so harsh! I don’t usually like the new spellings and alterations made to names but as mentioned, if it is a proper variant and one from another culture I think it might work. If you can get past the worrying about the spelling and judgement I think you’ll come to the right decision about the name…also I think Vyv is just as cute as [name_f]Viv[/name_f]. If [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] honours the little one’s grandmother’s name and you like it, I say go for it. I have an uncommon name and an unpronounceable last name unless I am surrounded by Scots lol but it was never really an issue, I just got used to spelling out my name. I know it’s unimaginable for some but it was honestly not that big a deal for me growing up so I don’t imagine little Vyv will have a huge issue with it either. I like it and hope you choose the perfect name
I have to agree with the majority of posters and say to stick with [name_u]Vivian[/name_u]! [name_u]Vivien[/name_u] would be pretty too.
Also, I think the best way to honor a family member by naming a child is to use a name that is slightly different from the family member. For example, if I were to name my daughter [name_f]Isla[/name_f], after my great-grandmother [name_f]Ila[/name_f] [name_f]Mae[/name_f], I would use [name_f]Isla[/name_f] as the spelling. It still honors a family member, but gives the child their own spin on the family name, and gives them a little more individuality. [name_m]Just[/name_m] a thought!
Oh I believe you when you say it’s not - but at first glance, and to those who do not know that, it definitely does look it. Could you explain to him that using ‘Vyvy’ in a name can throw off pronunciation? I would say ‘Vy’ as v-eye, not the way [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] starts. It’s really confusing, and I’m all for honouring family, but I really don’t think this one’s a good idea. It would come off as chavvy to me, but that’s just me. Most people won’t get that you have family connections at a first glance - trust me. I work in schools, and when I see a name like Haeven ([name_u]Haven[/name_u]), my first thought isn’t ‘oh that must be a family name’ at all - and I think a lot of people are the same.
I’m sorry if I came off to bluntly, I didn’t mean to be rude, haha, just trying to be helpful
Some variants work in English and some don’t. This one doesn’t. It may be legit but a large majority of people you come across won’t know that and won’t care. [name_m]Even[/name_m] if you say, “It’s the Cornish form of [name_u]Vivian[/name_u],” people will look at you like you have three heads because a.) they won’t really know what Cornish is (a game hen?!) and b.) they’ll think you’re making it up (sort of like “my daughter’s name is Natielle, it means free in [name_m]German[/name_m]”).
ETA: There will also be a large portion of people who you won’t have a chance to explain it to and they’ll all just think you made up your own spelling of the name to be “youneek”.
Lawsonhaley - I didn’t think you were being harsh! And I’m a teacher so do have to deal with this sort of thing frequently, which is probs why I’m more concerned about it than my husband who doesn’t get exposed to this sort of thing often! Ashthedreamer - you’re pretty much the same as us with your understanding of chavs but there are also quite a lot of nouveau riche types who will go in for ‘quirky’ spellings and signal a certain sort of aesthetic to the rest of the population… Does that make sense? Kind of like you’re very into (often dreadful) ‘designer’ brands and diamante additions. Casilda that really made me laugh! I totally agree that having to explain it all the time to avoid the ‘youneek’ branding could be a problem but over here there really wouldn’t be a problem with saying ‘it’s Cornish’ - everyone knows what that means. It’s on a par with saying ‘it’s Welsh’ and would be the equivalent of an American being confused at an explanation of ‘it’s Floridian’!! Thanks everyone.
If you’re in the UK and the cornish connection would be easily understood and culturally accepted, I can understand why you would choose [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u]. However, should your child decide to live abroad the [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] spelling may make her life alot easier. As previous posters have pointed out the spelling [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] may not translate so easily in other cultures.
Personally I love the [name_u]Vivien[/name_u] spelling but if this spelling is too much for your dear husband, just go with [name_u]Vivian[/name_u].
Your daughter may also want her own identity so I typically prefer spelling variants or similar names so that your relative is honored whilst giving your daughter her own bit of identity. There are other names like [name_f]Viveca[/name_f] or [name_f]Vivika[/name_f] which are just as unique and can also honor your Dhs grandma.
Thanks giinkies. All in all, I think that [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] is going to be the goer for us. Oh’s grandmother passed away last year (at the age of 94!!) so this baby wouldn’t be living in her name shadow as such but I do think the spelling could be a burden. If we were called ‘[name_m]Smith[/name_m]’ or ‘[name_m]Jones[/name_m]’ I wouldn’t think twice about the more interesting spelling as there are big reasons behind it but with the added complication of our mad surname I guess we’ve got to just accept that the simpler we make it, the better. [name_f]My[/name_f] real name is the [name_m]French[/name_m] rather than the English spelling of a fairly common first name which was fine when I had a standard surname and I occasionally had to correct people in call centres etc., but now that I’ve got to spell that out AND two syllable Scottish-*two syllable Italian" just paying a bill over the phone can take time. Husband is called ‘[name_u]James[/name_u]’ so he has never experienced these dramas at both ends of the name. I’m going to break the news to him this evening Poor old boy!
I just wanted to add (since no one else has) that [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] is all The [name_m]Young[/name_m] Ones to me, but perhaps, that reference isn’t as strong as I thought. I think that [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] totally still works to honor your husband’s grandmother and your Cornish heritage.
Vyvyan family - Wikipedia – It appears that [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] is sometimes used to Anglicize the [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] family name. But, that said, I think you could meet in the middle with [name_m]Vyvian[/name_m] or [name_u]Vivyan[/name_u] if you really wanted to.
A final idea that I haven’t seen suggested: [name_f]Viviane[/name_f] – the name sometimes given to the Lady of the [name_u]Lake[/name_u]. I read somewhere that her lake is claimed to be in Cornwall (the Dozmary Pool or The Loe) though there are other locations. I think this spelling could still work to honor your Cornish heritage / husband’s grandmother, but be a little different from the rising in popularity of [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] in an achievable way.
Regardless, I like [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] whatever way it is spelt so best of luck to you.
No problem. I understand sometimes you have to go with the flow no matter how badly you want something. Truthfully I am in love with the terrible name [name_f]Mildred[/name_f] and my family has realistically banned me from using it as a first or middle name, sigh. I fully understand why though. [name_f]My[/name_f] condolences to you and your family on the loss of your grandmother but she lived a long life and had a loving family especially if y’all are considering naming your daughter after her.
I can also relate to you on the last name complications as I have the cultural version of my last name and not the anglicized one, so I can relate to you on the last name spelling drama. I actually considered changing my last name to the anglicized version but it would be too much trouble to re-do all my passport visas.
I actually really like [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u], but agree that it will cause her a whole lot of trouble as pretty as it looks. I’d probably just go with [name_u]Vivian[/name_u] in your situation.
[name_u]Vivien[/name_u] is my favourite too. Shame about your husband!
I have several British friends, and they’ve all tried to explain the whole chavvy-ness thing to me, but it’s hard to relate to, since there’s no real American equivalent. I was just thinking of the fact that (at least here, in the United States!) a good percentage of the people who use purposely misspelled names are either teen moms or the inner-city, lower-class, type people. From what I understand, chav doesn’t automatically mean low class, but I guess I could see how some might see [name_u]Vyvyan[/name_u] as chavvy, as well. Hmm.