I have been thinking about two NFL players recently: Jason Kelce and Matthew Stafford. Kelce has three daughters: Wyatt, Elliott, and Bennett. Stafford has four daughters: Chandler, Sawyer, Hunter and Tyler. If you look at their social media posts announcing the names, you will be hard pressed to find anyone acknowledging that this is weird, 95% of people don’t bat an eye. Can you imagine an NFL player, or anyone for that matter, having four sons named Chelsea, Sydney, Hailey, and Tracy? People would consider that child abuse.
I understand that some of these names are more so surnames than they are traditional male given names, but the point still stands, and besides, almost any traditional male given name you can think of is also being used for girls nowadays (see: the James as a middle name for girls trend, when Jane is right there!)
In no way am I pro the enforcement of gender roles, quite the opposite, and that is why I think this phenomenon is bothersome. It is often said that “gender bending” is the in naming trend, when in reality, it only ever goes one way. Boy names for girls are described as “cool”, (because maleness is cool), but girl names on boys are universally understood to be, at the risk of sounding overly dramatic, cruel. A boy having to bear a female name would be humiliating to him, (because femininity is embarrassing). I don’t know, to me, the trend just reeks of “cheering a little too loudly when the gender reveal is blue” vibes. What do you think?
i definitely get what you’re feeling! it’s honestly so frustrating that masculine names are used for girls and the same energy isn’t given when feminine names are used for boys. it’s the same with clothing; a woman wearing a suit is fine, but a man wearing a dress isn’t. it all comes down to femininity being perceived as weak and undesirable, unfortunately.
Not to get to political, but I agree that femininity is often seen as negative. It’s incredibly frustrating, while I love boy names for girls, I wish girl names for boys had the same appeal. And I wish it was “I like this name” and not “we couldn’t be bothered to pick a girl name”
Edit: that being said I love Aubrey, Peyton, Karter, Felix, Robby, Joy, Rose, Emmett, Harper, Quinn, Isabeau, and August on the “opposite” gender
it really does sound like you are trying to enforce gender roles.
[name_u]Tracy[/name_u], [name_u]Hazel[/name_u], [name_u]Ashley[/name_u], [name_u]Kelsey[/name_u] and names like that are awesome on boys. and names like [name_u]Chandler[/name_u], [name_u]Bennett[/name_u], [name_u]Elliott[/name_u], and [name_u]Sawyer[/name_u] are awesome on girls. I actually prefer [name_u]Ashley[/name_u] on a boy, my dad knows a male [name_u]Ashley[/name_u] who suits the name very well.
now I will say, for gender bend names like that I only would use those as middle names, simply to save me the trouble of having to explain their names every five seconds.
so like my favorite combo ever, [name_f]Samantha[/name_f] [name_u]Robert[/name_u] [name_u]Rose[/name_u], it’s an important honor name for me (it honors my best friend, grandmother, and a great-aunt). and giving girls male middle names often balances out the femininity of it.
as is another one of my favorite combos [name_m]Edmund[/name_m] [name_u]Hazel[/name_u] [name_u]James[/name_u]. [name_u]Hazel[/name_u] balances out the masculinity of [name_m]Edmund[/name_m].
it’s 150% not misogynistic to give girls boys names and boys girls names. it’s very awesome and balances out the names.
I completely respect your opinion, and I do like the flow of [name_f]Samantha[/name_f] [name_u]Robert[/name_u] [name_u]Rose[/name_u]. You are someone who is a true believer in name gender bending, which I see no problem with at all, I am all about fluidity! [name_f]My[/name_f] qualm is with people who would never consider giving their son a feminine name, but give their daughters exclusively masculine names. But at the end of the day, people should do what they want with their own children’s names.
I don’t see a problem in this either, boy names are completely badass on girls, but girl names are completely badass on boys as well. I think I’ve used this somewhere before, that I watched a show a few years ago where one of the main male characters was named Jane, he was as masculine as they come and his name fit him perfectly. so I don’t see the problem in giving their daughters completely masculine names.
I really agree with your point, this is something I’ve been thinking about for awhile!
I don’t think you’re trying to enforce gender roles; to me it reads like you’re trying to point out a discrepancy in how gendered names are viewed, which I think is totally valid and 100% accurate.
[name_m]Even[/name_m] though I find myself constantly thinking about this (and I agree, that it is because femininity is viewed in a negative light) I find myself accidentally enforcing it sometimes. For example, when trying to build a boy name combo with [name_u]Blythe[/name_u] I find myself wondering whether it sounds “masculine enough”, whereas when I use a gender-neutral name in a feminine combo, I never find myself wondering if it comes across as “feminine enough”
Definitely an interesting thing to think about - I hope that the boy’s side can reclaim more names in the future, and hopefully this will bring about more conversation of why feminine things are seen as so shameful!!
this is all from my own experience, but i’ve met a lot of men with feminine sounding names, and it doesn’t seem to be a huge deal. i also just don’t really get the whole vibe that masculinity is seen as cool and femininity is seen as embarrassing in general. there are some names i love that could be seen as gender bending (harper on a boy, jasper on a girl) and i’m not doing it to make a statement or to be sexist, i just like the name.
I get that. [name_m]Just[/name_m] out of curiosity, what makes you like [name_u]Harper[/name_u] for a boy but not a girl, and [name_u]Jasper[/name_u] for a girl but not a boy? Is it not because of the fact that that is the reverse of what’s expected?
Part of this feels like a style choice. We don’t really know how these families would name boys if they don’t have any but Im getting a really consistent style from both sets. Definitely I would think [name_u]Tyler[/name_u] was weird and embarrassing maybe if I had a sister named [name_f]Isabella[/name_f] but I feel like it fits with the others.
I feel like choosing [name_u]Hunter[/name_u] for a girl doesn’t say “maleness is cool” but more like “look at this girl who can do whatever she wants.” I think people are afraid to give boys more traditionally feminine names because boys have less freedom to be different? Anyway there are just way too many labels. What does it mean to be feminine or masculine anyway?
i wish i had a more concrete reason behind this other than they really just clicked! however, i’ve only ever met male harpers, so it’s what is expected for me at least. and for whatever reason, i can very easily imagine naming a future daughter jasper, and i can’t at all imagine using it for a future son, and that really makes an impact on whether i keep a name on my list. (:
I agree that this is frustrating. And girls will be given very strongly established masculine names like James, and let’s not talk about violent ones like Hunter, but boys will only be given very neutral sounding names that work for both genders to begin with or that were originally boy names passed on girls centuries ago (like Ashley or Piper) and never a traditionally girly name like Rose or Amanda.
Just the usual, masculine being perceived as more neutral, as the norm, while feminine is an affirmation of a different gender.
I think the notion that giving a girl a masculine name is an indicator that she’s badass or “can do whatever she wants” is condescending. “Her name is Hunter so you know she can do whatever boys can do.” Could she not if her name was Isabella? She would be the same child. You would never hear someone say “look at this boy who can do whatever he wants”, because it’s considered to go without saying.
I have many opinions on the gender of names - mostly because I’m a big believer in names being genderless, but I also understand the social implications of giving your son and traditionally feminine names and vice versa - but I won’t get into that now (we’ll be here all day).
So instead I’ll say, I do get your point. I do think the whole deal with boys not being given traditionally feminine names is rooted in misogyny. I don’t think you gave the best example though.
The names you provided are incredibly trendy, not just as a “boy names on girls” thing, but they’re trendy for boys as well. If these parents had a son, I doubt they’d have named him [name_u]Charles[/name_u] or [name_u]Edward[/name_u]. I also think it comes down to perspective. [name_u]Elliott[/name_u], [name_u]Sawyer[/name_u], and [name_u]Tyler[/name_u] lean more neutral to me than anything, as does [name_u]Sydney[/name_u]. And I think [name_u]Chelsea[/name_u] would be awesome on boy (definitely not child abuse)! These examples, recognised by NB and many others (including myself) as unisex, probably don’t speak a lot to the gendered names conundrum - because, like I said, it really does come down to perspective.
Names as they’re gendered today haven’t always been that gender. [name_u]Meredith[/name_u], [name_u]Allison[/name_u], [name_u]Vivian[/name_u], [name_u]Cassidy[/name_u], [name_u]Lindsay[/name_u], [name_u]Shelby[/name_u], and [name_u]Lauren[/name_u] were all more popular for boys than girls at one point in time. Like I said before, there are people, including myself, who love these names on boys. Today, a girl named [name_u]Edward[/name_u] isn’t going to go down any better than a boy named [name_f]Alice[/name_f]. But who knows in 50 years
Some people seem to think it’s important to push girls to do stuff thats boys have traditionally done. I see so much stuff about “oh I never saw anyone who looked like me doing this” or “Im trying to be a role model for young girls” etc. I don’t personally think this is all that important. I can’t remember ever thinking things like that I just choose whatever I liked and had success with. But if I thought giving my daughter a less frilly name gave her an advantage then why wouldn’t I do it?
[name_f]My[/name_f] daughter’s name is [name_f]Isabelle[/name_f] so I clearly didn’t think her name would limit her
This also speaks to my point. Once names start being given to more and more girls, parents stop giving them to boys. So again, misogyny. There are very few truly gender neutral names that parents give to their sons more frequently than a one-off instance, because once a name becomes too girly, parents think “better not”. It is far less common that parents will think “better not” once a unisex name becomes too popular with boys. That’s what I’m getting at.
Yes, exactly! The fact that names now considered feminine were once more commonly used for boys is another example of what your original post was pointing out, rather than an exception to that phenomenon! I kept thinking about this while reading through the comments here.
