Whoa. It’s one thing to have an opinion, but that’s pretty unkind and oh-so-condescending–the “poor, poor niece” comment. It’s not addressed to someone hypothetical but to the poster’s real live relative. And I don’t happen to believe that the above poster was “asking for it” by posting on the internet to begin with, as I’ve sometimes heard argued. [name]Nor[/name] do I think that contributing honestly to the discussion and expressing yourself kindly are mutually exclusive, as I’ve also heard argued. I usually try to stay out of this stuff, but I felt compelled to respond.
For what it’s worth, my own daughter has a feminine name, and I definitely favor feminine names for girls myself, but I don’t feel comfortable ascribing negative characteristics to parents who have different taste. I think that babeinthewoods put it well when she said that many parents will choose gender-bending names for stylistic reasons rather than philosophical ones. In those instances when parents say that they wish to give their daughters a boost in the workforce through an androgynous or masculine name, my sense is that this generally speaks to an awareness of (or fear of) sexism and exclusiveness (old boys’, etc.) within the workforce rather than any essentialist ideas of masculinity as strong and femininity as weak on the parents’ part.
To riff on what a few others have expressed, I’m troubled by the notion that parents who name their daughters gender-bending names are somehow “stealing from the boys”–this speaks to the pervasive cultural anxiety that anything that comes to be associated with girls should in turn be associated with our sons, and this anxiety (and the attendant belief that these names become unusable for boys) is far more disturbing to me than notions of gender fluidity in naming.
@hilary my own personal thing isn’t to do with it being negative that girls share names with boys and shouldnt be associated with them. I just don’t think some of these names are attractive on girls.
This is meant to be hypothetical,not outright bashing of particular real life people. It isn’t ok to be rude to the pp who said her niece is named [name]Robert[/name]. She’s a real person,with an actual real live niece and therefore feelings. I don’t “feel sorry” for her niece. The name is not my style,but then again a fair few aren’t. I’m sure she’s a very lovely ,happy little girl.
I totally agree with this, although this also reflects the double standard when it comes to clothes, fashion and other societal norms, etc as well, that what goes for girls does not go for boys. I think the issue is that this is so engrained that it is not a name issue alone.
I looked into this once and blogged about it. A lot of the names that became popular for girls, like [name]Madison[/name], [name]Ashley[/name], even [name]Morgan[/name] or [name]Meredith[/name], etc were not that popular for boys - ever. There is a misconception that girls steal the names from boys. I don’t think there is any examples where a very popular name for boys started to get used by girls, then became less popular for boys and then became a girls name. But it is a misconception born out of paranoia too that a boy who shares a name with a girl will somehow be sullied by it.
And again, this is not a new trend. Going back to the sixties and seventies, actress [name]Kyle[/name] [name]Richards[/name] is another example. I wonder if the outrage then was as large as a female [name]Maxwell[/name] now?
Such a pet peeve of mine. I recently went to dentist and 2 employees there just had baby girls. They were [name]Carson[/name] and [name]Emerson[/name]! I get not wanting a frilly name, but there are so many solid girls names to choose from. I equally hate the surname trend.
Honestly, I like this trend. I see nothing wrong with & I think it’s uniqe. I think boys need a strong masculine name but there’s nothing wrong with a bit of creativity for the girls.
In general, I neither love nor hate unisex names. I think the only time I strongly disliked a “unisex” name was when I met a little girl named…wait for it…[name]Wilson[/name]. I put the unisex in quotes b/c, before meeting her, I would never have considered [name]Wilson[/name] to be a unisex name. I just can’t wrap my mind around naming a girl [name]Wilson[/name]. Funny thing is, her sister’s name was [name]AnneMarie[/name] (which, [name]IMO[/name], is a very “girly” name). Polar opposite girl names…not sure what the parents were thinking. My only hope is that perhaps [name]Wilson[/name] was a meaningful family name.
That’s why many people dislike this trend - they feel that once a traditional strong masculine name has been used on girls it’s not strong and masculine anymore. I don’t think this but I’m sure a lot of people do. (Also, I don’t really think that a name has to be strong to be masculine, or feminine for that matter. Masculine/feminine and strong are two very different things.) Considering how popular [name]Madison[/name] is, I wouldn’t say it was unique. But if you find a boy name that works on a girl then I guess it’s quite creative.
I’m a tad late on this, but I thought I would voice my opinion.
What irks me is that it only goes from masculine to feminine, never the other way around. What does it say about American society that its ok for females to be masculine, and males are pushed to be hyper masculine, but it’s definitely not ok for a male to be “soft” or “feminine” in any way. Names like [name]Ezra[/name], [name]Elliot[/name] and [name]Micah[/name] are being passed up by parents for boys because they sound “feminine” or “soft” - what? Really?
If ALL names were unisex, I would be down with it, but it’s such a huge double standard that I just can’t condone it at all.
I mostly agree with you except for the not condoning it part. Personally I think if anyone has a hang up it’s the parents of boys and they just need to get over it - it seems to me from some of the things I have read here and elsewhere that parents of boys are almost paranoid and terrified of their son being teased - are they that weak that they can’t handle it? This to me is patronizing and condescending to boys and that the idea that a name can just strip them of their masculinity is really the trap that these parents (and a lot of people) fall into where reality seems to just not support this. Most boys with so called feminine names have in my experience been much more unaffected by their name than the decryers would suggest.
^ This. The phrase, “Stop stealing our boy’s names” can annoy me at times, because you know what? It takes two to tango. If everyone veers away from [name]Elliott[/name]/[name]Avery[/name]/[name]Emery[/name]-on-a-boy as soon as they hear of one girl called [name]Elliott[/name] / [name]Avery[/name] / [name]Emery[/name] / whatever, then that name is likely to be “stolen”. It’s not that it ends in a vowel sound. It’s not that it has a soft consonant. It’s not that it’s similar to [feminine name]. It’s that people don’t seem to want their son sharing a name with a girl. The whole thing would be resolved if people would just get over it as cka said and just use [name]Elliott[/name] on the gender they want to use it for.
[name]IMO[/name], it’s this simple: if someone likes [name]Aubrey[/name] on a boy, they should use it on a boy. He may be mistaken for a girl from time to time, and that may be annoying, but it’s not going to kill him or transform him into a girl. So why stress?
My issue is that people [name]DO[/name] stress and then cease to use it. [name]Morgan[/name], [name]Taylor[/name], [name]Emerson[/name] and [name]Emery[/name] are all on my boys list and I always get looks / comments and I always say that they ARE male names and I will use them as such. It just annoys me that it’s not ok to use female names for boys, but it’s ok for girls. The double standard is frustrating and insulting. There was a woman on another board I frequent who had Marren on her boys list and I was surprised, you rarely see stuff like that happening. Why is it OK for a girl to be [name]Elliot[/name], but not OK for a boy to be [name]Helen[/name]? I got that most of YOU don’t care, but I don’t like the double standard, the social implications are really sad.
As Berries have mentioned earlier, [name]Artemis[/name] is acceptable on a boy. Besides, if we veer into “Why is it OK for girls to gel their hair, but not OK for boys to curl theirs?” then we’ll be here all day. It’s been previously pointed out that that goes far beyond names, and I agree it’s a pretty miserable double standard.
EDIT: I just thought - someone should start a thread on girl’s names that might work for boys. So that no one freaks out, we could be completely (or mostly ;)) hypothetical about it. For example: Artemis, Hope, Romy, Cally, Grayson nn Grace. And of course, you’ve mentioned Helen which could work, although it might be too classic.
The worst bit of all about this to a large extent is also that it is not true. [name]Morgan[/name] for example has grown in popularity for boys since 1980 when it became more popular for girls and has only declined as the popularity for girls also declined. The same is true for [name]Taylor[/name]. [name]Emerson[/name] is currently climbing at the same time the popularity for girls is climbing. [name]Emery[/name] for boys is also rising as it is for girls. These names may be more popular for girls but it is untrue to say that they are being hurt by the popularity for girls, or at least the stats would suggest this is not the case. What is true is that a lot of people think this is the case and it is the fear that stops them using these names not reality.
ETA: [name]Avery[/name] has also grown in popularity for boys over recent years and is still rising.
So if people knew this, they wouldn’t be so distressed about names becoming unisex? If it’s not reflected in the statistics then I guess they have even less to worry about.
As I have said, many times, it is irrational fear based thinking. I really noticed it about a year or so ago here for the first time with the name [name]Sawyer[/name]. I saw so many posts saying that [name]Sawyer[/name] was trending female and so they could not think about using it for a boy - at the time [name]Sawyer[/name] was around 200 and something for boys and not in the top 1000 for girls in the rankings. In 2010 [name]Sawyer[/name] entered the girl rankings at 784 and the boys peaked at 172. In 2011 the girls ranking climbed to 715 and the boys stayed at 172. If [name]Sawyer[/name] does decline it is more because it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy than anything else.
The ones I feel a bit sorry for are the boys who have grown up with names they thought were boys’ names and now find that people think that they’re girls and have to put (Mr) in their email signatures. I went to school with boys named [name]Ashley[/name], [name]Leighton[/name] and [name]Elliot[/name] who must be cursing their parents’ naming choices now.
As a girl with a formerly unusual name that was often mistaken for a boy’s name, I know how that curse sounds. Thank goodness for changes in name trends - my name is now in the top ten and everyone knows I’m a girl!
If it’s not reflected in the statistics then I guess they have even less to worry about.