[name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] is DH’s current top pick should we have another boy. [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] [name_m]Stuart[/name_m] has been a longtime favorite combo. It would honor my grandfather [name_m]Stuart[/name_m] and I really do love it. But our son’s name has the auspicious meaning of “happy time,” and meaning is very important to me in general.
I worry that [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] combos will always come up negative in meaning. “To hate,” “wrathful,” “to be wrought against” (etc.) are not the most cheerful of etymologies.
I have thought about making a positive from a double negative, like:
[name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] [name_m]Casimir[/name_m] (“to hate destroyers of the peace”)
[name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] [name_m]Nemo[/name_m] (“to hate nobody”)
But I don’t know if they settle right, and they certainly feel less personally meaningful.
I understand meaning is not important to everybody. But if it is important to you, how would you work through this?
Should we try to reframe the name by giving it our own meaning based on connotation, like “adventurer” or “sail beyond the sunset?” That somehow seems disingenuous.
Should we just move on from our phonetic favorite in favor of something a little more positive?
So I kind of know your struggle–[name_f]Cecelia[/name_f] means blind and [name_m]Calvin[/name_m] means bald–but when you look at the points in history where these names acquired these meanings, those meanings seem so subjective and arbitrary. Oftentimes a “meaning” is just a characteristic from the first well known literary or historical figure with that name. “Wrathful” is one characteristic of the character [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m], but the meaning could’ve just as easily been “perseverent”, “bravery”, “adventurer”, “dutiful” etc.
I’m really fond of [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] and I would love to meet a little [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m]. If you think the meaning will bother you forever, I guess leave the name behind. But I really hope you just use a name you love and have a good story for why you picked it so [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] will have that story if the lack of a positive meaning means something to him.
I’m wondering where you found the meaning? I couldn’t find any listed for [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m].
But supposing [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] does mean something like “wrathful” or “to hate,” I imagine the meaning originated in the Odyssey, particularly when he unleashes his wrath on his wife’s suitors. However, [name_m]Odysseus[/name_m]/[name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] is not overall a wrathful character, in my opinion; he only resorts to that behavior in exceptional circumstances. He is far better known as clever, a favorite of [name_f]Athena[/name_f]'s. I’m honestly surprised that the so-called meaning is negative. But as the previous poster brought up, some names have unappealing meanings, which maybe have a more complicated history than we know. This is one person’s take on [name_f]Cecilia[/name_f]‘s meaning, for instance: Spotlight on: Cecilia | Sancta Nomina. I think it’s entirely possible that we’ve lost [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m]’ meaning origin and therefore don’t know what circumstances led to a seemingly negative meaning.
Whew! Sorry that was long-winded!
I personally love [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] and think that, if you’re concerned about meaning, the double-negative idea is a good one. Or fabricating something more pleasing based on the original myth or subsequent iterations. Though I also think that the parents’ relationship with a name, its meaning and story to them, is more important than any supposed definition, especially because meanings are sometimes mistranslated or attributed willy-nilly to appease people.
I hope you don’t disregard this name just because of its meaning! Good luck!
P.S. I think [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] makes a fantastic sibling name for your son
I think it’s important to consider the original cultural context of [name_m]Odysseus[/name_m]/[name_m]Ulysses[/name_m]. Many of the Greek heroes have names with meanings similar to “destruction.” Consider what these myths are about and why such names would be chosen for their protagonists. This does not mean your son will be a violent, negative person. I don’t really understand the focus that some parents have on a name’s literal etymology, so perhaps I’m not the right person to comment. To me a name’s significance to the parents is far more meaningful than whether the name means “bald” or “destroyer of flowers.”
I understand your dilemma. Theoretically, I know that a name’s “meaning” is more complex than its etymology alone. Nonetheless, etymology does matter to me.
That said, I think the fact that the etymology of [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] is uncertain works in your favour. It wouldn’t be dishonest to say something like “no-one is really sure what the name means, but we chose it because____”. [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] was clever, calm in a crisis, resilient and brave. He inspired devotion and demonstrated that thoughtfulness is as powerful as physical strength. His adventures inspired some of the most respected literature in Western history.
Weighing that up against a speculative etymology, I think he comes out on top.
I know you’ve already got plenty of other names on your list, though I can’t find those threads just now. In case you haven’t already considered them, here are a few with that remind me of [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] and have meanings that might be positive for you . I also think they go well with your husband’s surname:
That’s a tricky one. I personally find the meaning of a name very important, but I consider a meaning to be more than just it’s definition. [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] has a long history that I think contributes to it’s meaning. It’s definition “to hate” can be combined with it’s most famous bearer, [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] S. [name_m]Grant[/name_m] and you can take away the meaning to stand up against what you hate. Or as a form of [name_m]Odysseus[/name_m] you can relate it to [name_m]Homer[/name_m]'s [name_m]Odysseus[/name_m] and relate it to overcoming hate to find your way home.
My son’s name is [name_u]Lennon[/name_u]. In Irish Gaelic it means lover, in Scottish Gaelic it means little sweetheart. But it’s also very associated with [name_m]John[/name_m] [name_u]Lennon[/name_u] so when I think of what his name means to me I think of peace and love. [name_m]Even[/name_m] though, by definition, his name has absolutely nothing to do with peace.
Only you can determine how much original definition is going to contribute to your meaning of a name. If you can’t get on board with the name because of it’s origins, that’s understandable. If you choose to see it in a positive light, I think your meaning for your son is all that should matter.
For what it’s worth, I worked with a young man named [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] years ago and he was fun, courageous and one of the nicest people I ever met. I don’t think he was capable of hate. So due to personal associations, I personally see the name exactly the opposite of how its defined.
I have known pre-teens/teens in a group of friends, both females and males, looking up the meaning of each other’s names. I think when they got to [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] and read “to hate" it would make for upset. I normally do not care too much about meanings of names but I personally would steer clear of certain names because of meaning. [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] would be one. It is already a big name to live up to, especially for a child. Yes, children will always find ways to poke fun, tease, upset those they go after but I think with [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] being so bold and different (at least in the US) can already attract those types and the meaning would just add more kindling to the fire.
First of all, [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] [name_m]Stuart[/name_m] is beautiful.
Like others, I too have struggled with meaning, which is also important to me. For me, the issue was [name_m]Miles[/name_m], which is likely derived from the latin word for soldiers. I knew there were other possible derivations, but as someone who studied latin for several years, this bothered me. In the end, [name_m]Miles[/name_m] was the middle name that both my husband and I could agree upon, so I relied on those alternate etymologies and also, importantly, current perception. When we announced the name, people referenced how he’ll travel miles and, of course, the connection to [name_m]Miles[/name_m] [name_m]Davis[/name_m] (an important figure to me). In the end, this all outweighed the soldier reference. Also, my son’s first name does not have a particularly inspiring meaning (although I’ve come up with some stretches :)), but it was that of my late father, so it has lots and lots of meaning to me.
With [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m], I do think modern perception outweighs the actual definition(s). [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] is an adventurer. You don’t have to assign your own definition necessarily but rather your own meaning - I think there’s a subtle difference there. Also, I could interpret [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] [name_m]Stuart[/name_m] as the steward of those who are lost, those who bewail, those who may harbor deep anger. As such, [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] [name_m]Stuart[/name_m] is a caretaker in an undeniably flawed world. He is benevolent to those who need benevolence the most. This is not as cheery as H0ratio F3lix, but it is positive and noble and good. Is this convincing?
Usually I would do as you have and find a middle with a combined positive meaning, but I agree it can take away some personal meaning and I don’t think it’s worth using a middle you may not particularly like or that doesn’t flow well with [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m]. I do find meanings important, my own holds a lot of significance for me, and I definitely dislike negative ones, but I would suggest maybe it isn’t the right choice if the meaning is enough to put you off. I had the same dilemma with [name_m]Ptolemy[/name_m], which has a similar ‘warlike/aggressive’ meaning, but his sound, feel and imagery is so light, playful, cheerful, and boyish I can’t give the meaning much weight or room to bother me. Of course I’m nowhere near kids, but I’d have no qualms using [name_m]Ptolemy[/name_m], regardless of meaning.
Although I think literal meanings can add or take away from a name, personal significance is just as important in my opinion. You’ll most likely be able to tell the story of how and why your children have their names, so meaning can come from anywhere, even if it isn’t so literal.
I don’t pay attention to meaning. If I did, many great names would be tossed out. I like [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] [name_m]Stuart[/name_m] a lot, strong name.
Maybe Eulalio which means sweetly-spoken?? And if you name him Eulalio [name_m]Stuart[/name_m] you maybe derive the nickname of [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] (the S sound coming from [name_m]Stuart[/name_m])
Meaning is important to me and I have avoided names with negative meanings for my children, so I understand where you are coming from. I believe our words carry power and I don’t want to be speaking something negative many, many, many, many times a day at a little person. My question is about why you love the name [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m]. From your original post it seems like it’s only the sound of it you like. This is a fine reason to use a name, but if it’s the only reason you have and you’re in such doubt about the meaning, maybe it’s not enough of a reason…
Meaning is important to me, so I’m with you if you would switch to something else. The name feels ruined to me if the meaning isn’t positive. Go with what feels right to you!
Sorry I got distracted from nameberry and it took me a while to get back.
This. Also thanks for the recommendations. I like a few of them.
Yes, very convincing. I love these ideas.
@myosotis. PLEASE use [name_m]Ptolemy[/name_m]. Such a great name!!
That’s a great idea. Unfortunately, Eulalio is too similar in sound and flow to my son’s name.
I love the sound, for sure. I also love the stories of the Odyssey and the [name_u]James[/name_u] [name_u]Joyce[/name_u] novel. I read the new biography [name_m]Grant[/name_m] by [name_m]Ron[/name_m] Chernow while I was pregnant with H, and [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] S. [name_m]Grant[/name_m] was a pretty good namesake as well. I like that it has ancient/classical roots, nautical/seafaring/adventuring vibes, and that he’s a minor Shakespearean character just like my son’s name, too.
I guess I’ve decided I’m not done with [name_m]Ulysses[/name_m] yet. Won’t discount him based on the unfortunate meaning. Thanks, berries!
