I posted a thread about this on a parenting forum I go on ages ago but I don’t think many of the members really got what I was saying. I’m hoping, with this being a naming site, people will understand (even if, as I suspect, they disagree) what I’m trying to articulate.
I hate the phrase ‘made up names’. It seems like a bit of a tautology to me. All names - absolutely every single name that has ever been in existence - is made up!? Whether the name was made up thousands of years ago, hundreds of years ago, decades ago or yesterday, they’re still all made up!
I also find it amusing when I see people outing a name as a ‘made up name’ (obviously meaning they think it’s a recently made up name) when it’s actually ancient Greek or Shakespearean etc.
Everyone seems to think this is a perfectly acceptable phrase. Am I the only person in the world who finds it annoying?
Bafanominxie = A name I made up just now and, quite frankly, it’s ridiculous. It has no meaning, it has no history; I simply picked some random sounds out of thin air.
I think when people say that they think it’s “made up”, it’s name like Trynzzleigh, Bernardleigh or things in that order? I know for certain, that the name Maloa is made up, but when I showed it to my mum and her answer was “Where did you find that? It’s so much prettier than the name [name_f]Malou[/name_f].”
Yes, it’s okay not to like the name if they’re made up, as they have no meaning. [name_m]Say[/name_m]… Taking a new name such as; Caorin. It’s female, close to [name_f]Carin[/name_f]/[name_f]Carina[/name_f], but because it doesn’t have any meaning, I could feed you with the meaning Sorrowful or Wanderer, as you cannot possible know if it’s real or not.
As we already know that [name_f]Madisyn[/name_f] is a variant of [name_u]Madison[/name_u], so it means the same thing, but ti doesn’t look pretty, hm? And [name_f]Paisleigh[/name_f] is a variant of [name_u]Paisley[/name_u].
But if the name is acceptable in Shakespearean plays or in Greek mythology, then it is a acceptable name.
That’s true in so much as all words and language were once created. But words have been refined over the years and most have definite meanings and a clear history of usage. It is the same with names. I do not find the phrase annoying as it is perfectly appropriate to say “[name_f]Nevaeh[/name_f] is a made- up name. It has no meaning, no substance, and no history of usage.” I do, however, find it annoying when legitimate names are thought to be made up because a) inventing your own name is such a trend that it’s a default assumption, and b) the hearer has never otherwise encountered the name.
Surely, the only reason names have a ‘meaning’ and ‘history’ is because they are old. For instance, the name [name_f]Miranda[/name_f] seems to be an accepted not ‘made up’ name these days and Nameberry gives it the ‘meaning’ of 'marvelous. But [name_m]Shakespeare[/name_m] just made it up?? [name_m]How[/name_m] is that any different from someone today making up a name? Why does when the name was made up matter? And where is the cut off point?
Also, with names that have a etymological tree it’s again just because they’re old. There are many variations of names people come up with today but they’re thought ti be inferior to variations people came up with a few hundred years ago.
@darklady - I completely understand what you are saying, and let me just tell you that this is not a battle you are going to win. I have seen it so many times on here, that I just tune it out. My daughter has a completely, 100% made up name, as admitted by the creator of Arrested Development. [name_f]Do[/name_f] I care? Obviously not, and it is annoying if people point it out. I knew that going into it. So there are those that care, and the outnumbered ones that don’t. My advice is to just let it go, like the names you like, and don’t feel bad when people tell you it is made up.
I do think that some made up names with heavy usage will end up having a history and meaning & listing soon enough. I could see how something like Quinleigh could hold the meaning of- feminine form of the English surname [name_u]Quinn[/name_u]. I don’t know, maybe someday it will be just as legit feeling as [name_f]Geraldine[/name_f] or [name_f]Thomasina[/name_f]? [name_m]Just[/name_m] as [name_f]Miranda[/name_f] has a root in a Latin word plenty of these made up names have a root somewhere. I mean, [name_f]Maeby[/name_f] has the [name_f]Mae[/name_f] root which is very classic. The scandalous [name_f]Neveah[/name_f] has the root of being a variant of [name_f]Heaven[/name_f].
At the same time, I don’t really like made-up names or trendy modern choices. I think it’s kind of like wearing your coat backwards. It’s not traditional. It skews as silly. The right person, of course, could pull it off with style and influence everyone else to try it.
To me, saying “all names are made up” is the same as saying “all words are made up”.
It’s true that words are “made up” in a sense, they develop from one language to another. They change over time and their meanings alter sometimes. [name_m]New[/name_m] words are occasionally created and after a period of use an “official” definition is accepted and it becomes part of the dictionary.
Names are made up in the same way. It’s true that names develop slowly from one language to another, that their meanings are sometimes remembered and sometimes lost.
But saying that the name Flypwqgry is just as valid as a name as [name_f]Beatrice[/name_f] simply because at some point [name_f]Beatrice[/name_f] was “made up” too, isn’t a good argument.
It’s like saying that if I decide to call a chair a rilstradg, that my choice is valid because the word chair was made up at some point and so I can just decide I’m gonna call what I sit on whatever I want.
Words don’t exist in a vacuum and neither do names. It’s true that names allow for a far greater level of flexibility since they can be so individual. I think that’s what you’re actually arguing. Your frustration is that individual names without history are not given the same amount of respect in society as names with history.
But that’s like saying you want “twerking” to be accepted as a noble and elegant dance like the waltz. Things are given respect and credibility through history and use and familiarity, that’s just how society works.
Certain names will no doubt stick around and over time be accepted with greater and greater respect as they become familiar and gain a history. You can’t force that.
So, if I called my next son a new name but it was derived from a Latin word (I’d give an example if my knowledge of Latin was better!) would that be more valid as a name?
Sorry, for some reason I can’t seem to multiquote so will just say thank you to everyone who has commented. I didn’t really expect to ‘win’ the argument as such (I know I hold a minority view) but I did hope for at least a discussion with people who understood the point I was trying to make and that has happened so I’m satisfied.
I do like the twerking analogy; that made me smile. I suppose I’m always a little torn with these debates because on the one hand I detest snobbery and I do think that’s what it comes down to but on the other hand I know I am one of the snobs I hate. It annoys me when people use ‘lol’ in an actual conversation or when they misuse the word ‘ignorant’, even though I defend the evolution of language and creation of new words or attaching new meaning to old words. I roll my eyes at lots of new trends and hobbies even as I proclaim they’re no less valid than more established hobbies.
[name_m]Ah[/name_m], well, I’ll continue to defend ‘made up’ names even if [name_f]Nevaeh[/name_f] makes me cringe.
I think to use a “made-up” name takes guts because it will be a bit of an uphill battle. One which you can spectacularly fail - or you could invent the new [name_f]Miranda[/name_f]. Maybe your daughter Wibbeley becomes the next great thinker and in the generation of 2060 there are a myriad little Wibbeleys around in honour of your daughter. But that still means that the original little Wibbeley had to go through highschool with an odd unfamiliar name. One she had to explain and spell many many times. Therefore, I would generally choose the easy road for my offspring and give them established (if uncommon) names.
Another point is, that made-up names have a particularly bad image because of the generally bad taste of people using made-up names. If you go through the name creation process and come up with Ashterleigh or L’Deeva you’re giving other creative namers a bad name (pun intended). Instead imagine a little Magnifica (derived from Latin by the way). I think she would face fewer upturned noses than poor Wibbeley.
Made up names get a bad rap because more often than not they are poorly made. Regular joes often make bad names because they just throw words/sounds together and/or create their own pronunciations. My mn is made up but it’s a variation of my grandmother’s name and is derived from a Latin word. It makes sense because Mom didn’t get overly kre8tive to the point where you couldn’t decipher it’s meaning, spelling, or pronunciation. Most don’t take the time to research and create names that make sense. Writers tend to make great made up names because they do their homework.
Some people really don’t care if name has history. And that’s really not the issue.
I prefer real names, but only because I change my mind about names like I change socks and I really don’t want to regret my choice. That doesn’t mean everyone regrets using made up name.
I think using a made-up or invented name for a character is completely different from using it for a real person. For instance [name_m]Shakespeare[/name_m] made up the names [name_f]Miranda[/name_f] and [name_f]Jessica[/name_f] (and many others) but they were names for fictional characters (so the people themselves were made up just like their names). By the time these names were used for real people they already had a history of usage in Literature so were no longer considered to be made up.
Lots of people are bringing up [name_m]Shakespeare[/name_m]. He didn’t make up every name that he used—I’m pretty sure [name_f]Viola[/name_f], [name_f]Olivia[/name_f], [name_f]Luciana[/name_f], and [name_f]Adriana[/name_f] were in existence before Twelfth [name_m]Night[/name_m] and A Comedy of Errors were first performed. It’s also interesting that [name_m]Shakespeare[/name_m] gets brought up as a source of history and tradition because back in his day, people went to see his plays and those of other playwrights because they could learn new words and language from them. A lot of the “new words” he used may already have been creeping into [name_u]Early[/name_u] Modern English, it’s just that his usage is one of the most prominent first versions that we have (for instance, other writers used “to be or not to be” before him; he just used it in a way that cemented the phrase in our brains, associating it with contemplation of life and death).
I do agree that a name a mother comes up with to make her child unique is different from a name with an etymology developed from over centuries. I also agree with the poster who said that made-up names are looked down upon because people don’t make up names well—they’re associated with throwing sounds together instead of having a distinct meaning. Many people tend to prefer things with meaning.
I imagine back then there were people who rolled their eyes at [name_m]Shakespeare[/name_m]'s [name_f]Miranda[/name_f] just like people rolled their eyes at Renesme (and in a few hundred years that name will have a rich history and be perfectly acceptable).
Great explanation, kala_way. You said what I wanted to say better than I could phrase it. Yes, all words and names were made up at some point, thus basically every name is made-up.
I see where many Berries’ irritation at what they call “made-up names” is coming from. I agree, many are absolutely atrocious and many everyday words should not be appropriated as names! (I read somewhere the other day that Cheese, Phone, and Panda have now been used as names. Personally I think that’s worse than making up a name.) But I don’t dislike them simply because they’re “made-up”, I dislike them because they sound odd or ugly to me. Some are actually really pretty to me. My friend’s name is Krystal3@h (swap out the 3 for an E and the @ for an A) and I really love it. Yes, she does have issues with pronunciation and spelling though.
Yes, I can at least see what people mean when they say the problem is less with names being ‘made up’ and more with them being poorly made up! I think there may be something to the idea that many people who make up names, make up horrible sounding names and that it more cringeworthy than the fact they made it up.
As both a bookworm and a bit of a geek, there are many ‘made up’ character names both from literature and from series etc. that I would love to be able to use but realise they’re probably not realistic options for a child.
