Old-fashioned but whimsical

Hello,
I’m [name]Emilia[/name] and am expecting a second baby in early [name]March[/name]. I live with my boyfriend, our daughter [name]Nell[/name] [name]Isadora[/name] and his daughter adopted during his previous marriage, [name]Uma[/name] [name]Jean[/name].
I had postnatal depression after having [name]Nell[/name], and so didn’t really have a hand in deciding her name in the end. We had been planning to decide for sure when we saw her, and although we had a list I didn’t have the moment of looking into her face and experimenting to see which fit.
I know that motherhood is full of lots of things which are not the rose-tinted ideal, but the moment of naming a baby is something I desperately want to enjoy this time. I know there is a chance that I will become depressed again with this baby, and its something I am terrified of, but I want to be sure in advance that I have a name for him/her which will be a gift I can give even if I can’t be the best mother right away.
Very soppy I know!

The other family names are very short and, especially [name]Nell[/name], quite nicknamey. I am not convinced about whether or not to carry this on, as I think they already sound a bit cutesy (hope not though)
I like lighthearted but slightly unusual names, such as [name]Lottie[/name] and [name]Birdie[/name] but also more weighty names such as [name]Ophelie[/name], [name]Mariah[/name], Phantine and [name]Delphi[/name]. I’m not sure if I can find a more serious name to suit the jovial [name]Nell[/name], but am trying my best.
I have nothing I am set on for girls at the moment, so any suggestions welcome.

For boys, I like older names like [name]Hector[/name], [name]Rowan[/name], [name]Hugo[/name] and [name]Gus[/name]. I don’t want something too common, and I’m not shy of the really whacky names either.

Eek. Looking forward to replies!

I really like [name]Nell[/name], [name]Lottie[/name], and [name]Hugo[/name]. I know what you mean about not being able to participate in the naming process. I was really sick when I was pregnant and I couldn’t think straight. I really hope that you have a better experience this time around!

I think [name]Cleo[/name]/[name]Clio[/name] would sound great with your others girl’s names!

Other suggestions:

Pomeline
[name]Lavender[/name]
[name]Paloma[/name]
[name]Romilly[/name]
[name]Araminta[/name]
[name]Sapphira[/name]
[name]Poppy[/name]

[name]Uma[/name], [name]Nell[/name] and…

[name]Vera[/name]
[name]Ada[/name]
[name]Thea[/name]
[name]Iris[/name]
[name]Cora[/name]
[name]Willa[/name]
[name]Ingrid[/name]
[name]Greta[/name]
[name]Zola[/name]
[name]Freya[/name]

sillysheila- Thank you for the well-wishing and am pleased you like those two! Soft spot for both of them

holbs- [name]Romilly[/name] I love! What about just [name]Romy[/name]? Less pretty?
Also I think [name]Clio[/name] I like better. She was a muse if I remember right? I love names with beautiful roots and meanings.

leah_9- [name]Iris[/name] I like and ditto [name]Thea[/name] (right on my style!)
Pronounced tay-a tather than thee-a though i think.
I like [name]Vera[/name] but since the other girls’ names are quite old-fashioned I don’t know if that’s tip them over the edge into fusty? [name]Ada[/name] is v popular in the UK so thats out, and I can’t see [name]Ingrid[/name] on a baby for some reason.
[name]Willa[/name] I think is very graceful sounding, but also I find a bit tricky to say. Its the heavy L sound maybe!

So to sum, I am throwing [name]Romilly[/name]/[name]Romy[/name], [name]Clio[/name], [name]Thea[/name] and maybe [name]Iris[/name] (more for a middle than a first name)
into the mix!
[name]Hope[/name] this gives people some more idea of what sort of names I like too. Cheers, guys

Because [name]Uma[/name] and [name]Nell[/name] are so short, I think another short 1 or 2 syllable name would fit best. Some suggestions:

[name]Lottie[/name] (love this with your other girls’ names!)
[name]Poppy[/name]
[name]Zara[/name]
[name]Zora[/name]
[name]Plum[/name] (kind of wacky, but you said you were into that! :] )
[name]Cleo[/name]/[name]Clio[/name]
[name]Wren[/name]
[name]Daisy[/name]
[name]Mae[/name] (fits in perfectly with [name]Uma[/name] and [name]Nell[/name])
[name]Edie[/name]
[name]Evie[/name] (top 10 name in [name]England[/name]. they love nicknames. so do i. they rule.)
[name]Flora[/name] (so pretty! I am obsessed with [name]Flora[/name])
[name]Lucy[/name] (I adore [name]Lucy[/name] as well, but love the boy name [name]Luca[/name] more, so I will never use [name]Lucy[/name]. Sad)
[name]Violet[/name]
[name]Rose[/name]
[name]Cora[/name]
[name]Freya[/name]
[name]Eliza[/name]
[name]Ada[/name]
[name]Astra[/name]
[name]Dahlia[/name] (so pretty and vintage and whimsical. i love it with [name]Uma[/name] and [name]Nell[/name])

[name]Graham[/name]
[name]Rhys[/name]
[name]Rufus[/name]
[name]Ezra[/name]
[name]Milo[/name]
[name]Hugo[/name]
[name]Hugh[/name]
[name]Eliot[/name]
[name]Calum[/name] or [name]Callum[/name]
[name]Linus[/name] (i love this but my boyfriend hates it. shame)
[name]Silas[/name]
[name]Max[/name]
[name]Rex[/name] (perfect with [name]Uma[/name] and [name]Nell[/name]! [name]Rex[/name] is so fun)
[name]Gael[/name]
[name]Ewan[/name]
[name]Luca[/name]
[name]Jude[/name]
[name]Blaise[/name]
[name]Charlie[/name]
[name]Freddie[/name] or [name]Fred[/name]
[name]Alfie[/name]
[name]August[/name]
[name]Archie[/name]
[name]Mingus[/name]
[name]Miles[/name]
[name]Oren[/name]
[name]Leo[/name] ([name]Uma[/name], [name]Nell[/name], and [name]Leo[/name] is perfection. All short, charming, and quirky names. [name]Love[/name]!)
[name]Leon[/name]
[name]Felix[/name] (I love [name]Felix[/name] so much. [name]Uma[/name], [name]Nell[/name], and [name]Felix[/name]. I like it!)

[name]Do[/name] you like any of these?

Of your current ideas I love [name]Rowan[/name] and [name]Hugo[/name]. Here’s few I see sitting well with [name]Uma[/name] and [name]Nell[/name] (apologies for any repeats!):
[name]Meg[/name]
[name]Ruby[/name]
[name]Tula[/name]
[name]Lily[/name]
[name]Mia[/name]
[name]Sophie[/name]
[name]Lucy[/name]
[name]Evie[/name]
[name]Alice[/name]
[name]Tess[/name]
[name]Gemma[/name]
[name]Piper[/name]
[name]Amy[/name]
[name]Elsie[/name]
[name]Zoe[/name]
[name]Mira[/name]
[name]Tia[/name]
[name]Lola[/name]

[name]Noah[/name]
[name]Theo[/name]
[name]Jack[/name]
[name]Flynn[/name]
[name]Xander[/name]
[name]Rupert[/name]
[name]Rufus[/name]
[name]Oscar[/name]
[name]Elliot[/name]
[name]Jude[/name]
[name]Lewis[/name]
[name]Joel[/name]
[name]Warren[/name]
[name]Lucas[/name]
[name]Kyle[/name]

Am I close??!! [name]Fran[/name] x

There’s been some great suggestions, so I’ll try not to repeat any.

[name]Uma[/name], [name]Nell[/name] and:

[name]Venus[/name]
[name]Blythe[/name]
[name]Margo[/name]
[name]Lydia[/name]
[name]Petra[/name]
[name]April[/name]
[name]Ginger[/name]
[name]Bria[/name]
[name]Jada[/name]
[name]Cecily[/name]
[name]Sabrina[/name]
[name]Lana[/name]
[name]Rosa[/name]
[name]Honor[/name]
[name]Delia[/name]
[name]Bethany[/name]
[name]Harriet[/name]

[name]Harvey[/name]
[name]Clive[/name]
[name]Wesley[/name]
[name]Calvin[/name]
[name]Victor[/name]
[name]Chester[/name]
[name]Pierce[/name]
[name]Conrad[/name]
[name]Ned[/name]
[name]Rudi[/name]
[name]Alby[/name]
[name]Byron[/name]
[name]Dale[/name]
[name]Arlo[/name]
[name]Otto[/name]/[name]Otis[/name]
[name]Hiram[/name]
[name]Edmund[/name]
[name]Lowell[/name]

I love your daughters’ names. We’re considering [name]Eleanor[/name] nn [name]Nell[/name] for a girl, and [name]Isadora[/name] is our second fave!

Also love your ideas for boys’ names, especially [name]Rowan[/name] and [name]Hugo[/name]. I’ll try not to repeat any of the other great suggestions.

[name]Nell[/name], [name]Uma[/name] and…

[name]Paloma[/name]
[name]Ruby[/name]
[name]Sabine[/name]
[name]Tess[/name]
[name]Nola[/name]
[name]Billie[/name]
[name]Verity[/name]
[name]Mae[/name]
[name]Cora[/name]
[name]Wren[/name] (I know this is becoming way trendy but I like its sound with your other daughters’ names)
[name]Nico[/name] (could be for boy or girl)
[name]Millie[/name]

[name]Nell[/name], [name]Uma[/name] and…

[name]Leo[/name]
[name]Elias[/name]/[name]Eli[/name]
[name]Silas[/name]
[name]Dashiell[/name]
[name]Dexter[/name]
[name]Phineas[/name]

Wow! You all hit the nail on the head at least twice in your lists.

Here we go:
celestemilum-
[name]Nola[/name]- [name]Don[/name]'t think I want another name so similar to [name]Nell[/name]'s, but like it
[name]Billie[/name]- [name]LOVE[/name] this, but maybe only if I find a more formal name to go with it, either as a mn or a full first name
[name]Cora[/name]
[name]Wren[/name]- I love it too but so many little Wrens are creeping out of the woodwork. mourn!
[name]Nico[/name] (could be for boy or girl)- Like this actually, surprisingly because I usually hate all the ‘[name]Nico[/name]’ names haha
[name]Millie[/name]- Nice but too close to my name Haha, I got called [name]Millie[/name] as a child constantly

[name]Elias[/name]/[name]Eli[/name]- I like [name]Eli[/name] a lot.
[name]Silas[/name]- This one reminds me of farming machinery for some reason Haha
[name]Dashiell[/name]- [name]Love[/name] this but HATE [name]Dash[/name] as a nn. Sounds to me like a dog’s name.
[name]Dexter[/name]- Still reminds me of 1990s nerdy cartoons, sadly.
[name]Phineas[/name]- Like, and Finnie for short?

minkajoy- clever woman, these are fantastic!
highlights especially are:
[name]Venus[/name] A wild card choice, but you know what, I think this would be very spunky with her sisters’ names
[name]Blythe[/name]
[name]Petra[/name]
[name]Ginger[/name] (Her sisters are both bright blondes though so I’m thinking she may go the same way)
[name]Cecily[/name]
[name]Rosa[/name]
[name]Delia[/name]
[name]Harriet[/name]- Plus, I love [name]Hattie[/name] and [name]Harri[/name] as nns for a girl!
[name]Harvey[/name]- Would never have thought of this but it has a very rennovated vintage feel.
[name]Victor[/name]
[name]Pierce[/name]
[name]Conrad[/name]
[name]Ned[/name]- Adorable on a child, respectable on a man. Haha
[name]Rudi[/name]- Like this a lot, think it’s a stretch to use it on a girl? [name]Ruby[/name] is too popular for my liking.
[name]Alby[/name]
[name]Byron[/name]
[name]Arlo[/name]
[name]Otis[/name]
[name]Hiram[/name]- Have never heard this before. Same feel as Hallam, which I like a lot since seeing the film ‘Hallam Foe.’

jenna212-
The problem is, I loved basically ALL of these. ([name]Bar[/name] [name]Mingus[/name], [name]Freya[/name] and [name]Rose[/name])
Here are the ones I like but wouldn’t use for various reasons:
[name]Poppy[/name]
[name]Ada[/name]- Too popular :frowning:
[name]Evie[/name]- Ditto. I live in the UK haha
[name]Mae[/name]
[name]Daisy[/name]- These 2 have been ruined for me by overuse round where I live
[name]Astra[/name]- Too harsh sounding next to [name]Nell[/name] and [name]Uma[/name] I think

That leaves some that are on my list now:
[name]Lottie[/name]- Strong contender. Only thing holding me back, is that I think [name]Uma[/name] is a bit left out of the group
[name]Zara[/name]/[name]Zora[/name]- Undecided which I prefer. Hapless boyfriend will have to swing the decision for me
[name]Plum[/name]- I want to consider this as a middle name! ([name]Haven[/name]'t convinced him yet though)
[name]Edie[/name]- Nothing to say but, I love it.
[name]Flora[/name]- (so pretty! I am obsessed with [name]Flora[/name])
[name]Lucy[/name]- As a middle name, too common here to be first name material
[name]Violet[/name]- Again, middle name for the same reason. Lots of little Violets (I live in quite an upper middle class area)
[name]Dahlia[/name]- Never considered this either. Looked at [name]Delilah[/name] and [name]Delia[/name] but overlooked [name]Dahlia[/name] until now. Has a v opulent feel.
Anddddd for the boys…
Like but had to leave- [name]Rhys[/name], [name]Ezra[/name] (Too ethereal), [name]Eliot[/name], [name]Callum[/name] (Used in the rougher parts of [name]England[/name]!) [name]Gael[/name] (Too close to gay.Teasing potential) [name]Alfie[/name] (Too popular) and [name]Oren[/name] (Slight reminder of Oreos)
On the list:
[name]Rufus[/name]
[name]Milo[/name]
[name]Hugo[/name]- Already had these two, but nice confirmation from you all that they fit well!
[name]Linus[/name]- MY FAVOURITE
[name]Rex[/name]- CLOSE SECOND
[name]Luca[/name]
[name]Jude[/name]
[name]Blaise[/name]
[name]Archie[/name]
[name]Miles[/name]
[name]Leon[/name]
[name]Felix[/name]

fran- thanks for the input. generally, your ideas were a little bit common (as UK names) for me, but a couple work!
[name]Meg[/name]
[name]Elsie[/name]
[name]Zoe[/name] (but only spelled [name]Zooey[/name] and said Zoo-ee I think)
[name]Rupert[/name]
[name]Oscar[/name]
I really like [name]Rupert[/name], in fact. Very British! Haha

All in all, lots to consider and I’ll keep you all posted if you are interested?
[name]Will[/name] probably have a clearer list in a few days, and would like to come back to get a bit of clarity. Its hard to know after a while the good ideas from the downright awkward sounding ones. I want a middle name for my little bean too, probably a longer one to balance out what is sure to be a short and sweet [name]Christian[/name] name.
I’m looking at names meaning fair or blonde or otherwise blue as well, if any of you know any nice ones.
My husband has Swedish roots and is very blonde. Risky move, but I think it’s be lovely to have a name which matched an element of your appearance, and our daughter (and by chance [name]Uma[/name] too) are very light haired.

Phew this post has taken me SO [name]LONG[/name]. [name]Hope[/name] you all have a lovely [name]Saturday[/name], wherever you are writing from.
X

I think [name]Clio[/name] and [name]Felix[/name] are absolutely perfect with [name]Uma[/name] and [name]Nell[/name]. :slight_smile:

[name]Elvira[/name] ([name]Evie[/name])
[name]Clio[/name]
[name]Lottie[/name]
[name]Winifred[/name]
[name]Tora[/name]
[name]Zora[/name]
[name]Rowan[/name]
[name]Brigit[/name]
[name]Thea[/name]
[name]Thora[/name]
[name]Venus[/name] (Vee)
[name]Elsie[/name]
[name]Plum[/name]
[name]Harriet[/name]
[name]Dahlia[/name]
Inca
[name]Dasha[/name] ([name]Love[/name] this but think it may get slated)
[name]Iona[/name]
[name]Sasha[/name]
Minha (Means gift in Arabic. Bit different!)
Steren
[name]Adair[/name]
[name]Kitty[/name]
[name]Eartha[/name]

Hallam
[name]Jasper[/name]
[name]Vincent[/name]
[name]Harvey[/name]
[name]Edgar[/name] (Edge)
[name]Claude[/name]
[name]Homer[/name] (Ommie)
[name]Rowan[/name]
[name]Alby[/name]
[name]Milo[/name]
[name]Hugo[/name]
[name]Rudy[/name]
[name]Rupert[/name]
[name]Linus[/name]
[name]Rex[/name]

[name]Julian[/name] ([name]Jude[/name])
[name]Miles[/name]
Enda
[name]Felix[/name]

Here are my lists as they stand now.
What do you all think?
I’m really unsure of how these will sound to other people.
I want unusual, but preferably something that can have a nickname or middle name that she/he can use instead if embarrassed/hates it! I want to be ambitious but kind with my choice. Haha
XX

Wow you have come a long way, I am jealous!

From your girls list, I think I like [name]Lottie[/name] best. If used as a nn, [name]Charlotte[/name] would be the given name - is that popular in the UK? [name]Even[/name] though it’s super long, compared to [name]Uma[/name] and [name]Nell[/name], I think it fits nicely. I also like [name]Dasha[/name], but then again I think the nn [name]Dash[/name] is cute not dog-like at all. :slight_smile:

For boys, I like all the ones you bolded. Especially [name]Edgar[/name].

Good luck!

Hahaha thanks, I’ve been obsessing about it. Desperate to get it down to my final 5 for each sex this week.
Yes, sadly [name]Charlotte[/name] is a top 10 name here (I think)
V popular! I would like it otherwise probably. Haha.

[name]Glad[/name] someone else likes [name]Dasha[/name]!
I am having problems finding a middle name to go with it, though.
I think it’d need something more classic so that the name wasn’t altogether too much. Any ideas?

[name]Celeste[/name]! [name]Dasha[/name] [name]Celeste[/name]! That came to mind immediately. Let me think some more here.

I think it shouldn’t end with an A. But I think two syllables is ok.

[name]Dasha[/name] [name]Adeline[/name]
[name]Dasha[/name] [name]Clarice[/name]
[name]Dasha[/name] [name]Geraldine[/name]
[name]Dasha[/name] [name]Isobel[/name]
[name]Dasha[/name] [name]Josephine[/name]
[name]Dasha[/name] [name]Madeline[/name]
[name]Dasha[/name] [name]Suzanne[/name]

Any of these you like?

I think [name]Nell[/name] [name]Isadora[/name] is lovely and I know of a [name]Nell[/name], her sister is [name]Elvira[/name] similar to [name]Isadora[/name] imo, and the other sister is [name]Ethel[/name] [name]Veronica[/name] wdyt of that combo?

[name]Nell[/name], [name]Uma[/name] and

[name]Valerie[/name] [name]Jane[/name]
[name]Iris[/name] [name]Margo[/name]
[name]Irene[/name] [name]Delphi[/name]
[name]Daisy[/name] [name]Alice[/name]
[name]June[/name] [name]Veronica[/name]
[name]Maisie[/name] [name]Matilda[/name]
[name]Maggie[/name] [name]Fleur[/name]
Frith [name]Willow[/name]
[name]Polly[/name] [name]Susannah[/name]
[name]Cassandra[/name] [name]Olive[/name]
[name]Cecily[/name] [name]Anne[/name]
[name]Delia[/name] [name]Kay[/name]
[name]Delta[/name] [name]Ophelie[/name]
[name]Celia[/name] [name]Delphine[/name]
[name]Anne[/name] [name]Mariah[/name]
[name]Molly[/name] [name]Jeanette[/name]
[name]Tallulah[/name] [name]Wren[/name]
[name]Lola[/name] [name]Elise[/name]
[name]Lulu[/name] [name]Cosette[/name]

and
[name]Edwin[/name] [name]Matthew[/name]
[name]Edgar[/name] [name]Ian[/name]
[name]Rupert[/name] [name]Henry[/name]
[name]Alec[/name] [name]Mackenzie[/name]
[name]George[/name] [name]Oliver[/name]
[name]Jules[/name] [name]William[/name]
[name]Julian[/name] [name]Frederick[/name]
[name]Robert[/name] [name]Alan[/name]
Warwick [name]Xavier[/name]
[name]Derek[/name] [name]Orion[/name]
[name]Neville[/name] [name]Lindsay[/name]
[name]Eric[/name] [name]William[/name]
[name]Samuel[/name] [name]Isaac[/name]
[name]Thomas[/name] [name]Gordon[/name]
[name]Alan[/name] [name]Ignatius[/name]
[name]Gus[/name] [name]Anton[/name]
[name]Gus[/name] [name]Dudley[/name]

hope this helps a little

rollo

I love the idea of old-fashioned but whimsical names, such a good description. Sorry if I’m repeating some that you’ve already vetoed, but with [name]Nell[/name] and [name]Uma[/name] I love:
[name]Delphine[/name]
[name]Celeste[/name]
[name]Fleur[/name]
[name]Kitty[/name]
[name]Iona[/name]
[name]Pearl[/name]
[name]Clara[/name]
[name]Junia[/name]
[name]Bess[/name]
[name]Eulalie[/name]/[name]Eulalia[/name]
[name]Cordelia[/name]
[name]Dorothea[/name]
[name]Tabitha[/name]

As far as boys names go, there have been some brilliant suggestions here but I do think that [name]Milo[/name], [name]Linus[/name] and [name]Arlo[/name]/[name]Arno[/name] go particularly well with [name]Nell[/name] and [name]Uma[/name].

With [name]Nell[/name] and [name]Uma[/name], here are my top 5 for each sex from your latest list:
[name]Clio[/name]
[name]Zora[/name] (also like [name]Zara[/name])
[name]Iona[/name]
[name]Sasha[/name]
[name]Adair[/name]
[name]Love[/name] [name]Plum[/name] but can’t see it as the given name of a real person, sorry. Very cute nn or great middle

[name]Edgar[/name] (Edge)
[name]Milo[/name]
[name]Linus[/name]
[name]Rex[/name]
[name]Felix[/name]
I like [name]Alby[/name] as a nn but I don’t really care for [name]Albert[/name], not sure if you would like [name]Alby[/name] as the given name.

[name]Elvira[/name] ([name]Evie[/name])
[name]Clio[/name]
[name]Lottie[/name]
[name]Winifred[/name] ([name]Winnie[/name])
[name]Zara[/name]
[name]Rowan[/name]
[name]Brigit[/name]
[name]Thora[/name]
[name]Harriet[/name]
[name]Inka[/name]
[name]Dasha[/name]
[name]Iona[/name]
[name]Adair[/name]
[name]Kitty[/name]
[name]Polly[/name]
[name]Cecily[/name]

[name]Jasper[/name]
[name]Edgar[/name] (Edge)
[name]Rowan[/name]
[name]Alby[/name]
[name]Hugo[/name]
[name]Rupert[/name] ([name]Rudy[/name])
[name]Linus[/name]
[name]Rex[/name]
[name]Felix[/name]
[name]Jules[/name]

Thanks to you all for the help so far.
grey56- I [name]LOVE[/name] [name]Dasha[/name] [name]Josephine[/name] and [name]Dasha[/name] [name]Celeste[/name]. That sits perfectly, and gives a bit of a balance to [name]Dasha[/name]!

rollo- Of your combos (particularly loved the girls ones) I liked:

[name]Nell[/name], [name]Uma[/name] and

[name]Valerie[/name] [name]Jane[/name]
[name]Iris[/name] [name]Margo[/name]
[name]Irene[/name] [name]Delphi[/name]
[name]Daisy[/name] [name]Alice[/name]
[name]June[/name] [name]Veronica[/name]
[name]Maisie[/name] [name]Matilda[/name]
[name]Maggie[/name] [name]Fleur[/name]- Particularly love if it were [name]Marguerite[/name] ([name]Maggie[/name]) [name]Fleur[/name]. Because 1- thats a family name and 2- then would mean [name]Daisy[/name] [name]Flower[/name] which is subtle and quite cute I think!
[name]Polly[/name] [name]Susannah[/name]- [name]ADORE[/name] this combo. Think [name]Polly[/name] is going on my girls list now.
[name]Cassandra[/name] [name]Olive[/name]
[name]Cecily[/name] [name]Anne[/name]- [name]Cecily[/name] is going on the list too:)
[name]Celia[/name] [name]Delphine[/name]
[name]Molly[/name] [name]Jeanette[/name]
[name]Lulu[/name] [name]Cosette[/name]

[name]Rupert[/name] [name]Henry[/name]
[name]Alec[/name] [name]Mackenzie[/name]
[name]George[/name] [name]Oliver[/name]
[name]Jules[/name] [name]William[/name]- Like this better than [name]Julian[/name] OR [name]Jude[/name]! On the list!!
[name]Gus[/name] [name]Anton[/name]

Any more help on the list guys? Opinions/unusual and quaint middle name suggestions?
I am having fun (as well as panicking) with this now.
xxx