“[name_m]How[/name_m] on earth do you not find that blasphemous?”
Because not everyone has the same views or religious backgrounds.
To be more specific with the blasphemous comments, we’re naming her [name_u]Kyrie[/name_u] AND Eleison. Together meaning “[name_m]Lord[/name_m], have mercy.” I’m not specifically calling her “[name_m]Lord[/name_m]”. It’s more pleading to God to have mercy on human beings as a whole. That’s how my husband and I understand it and view it, at least regarding her name. If we’re off on the meaning/religious significance it actually historically has, then I’m sorry certain people find it offensive. It isn’t to us and it has a very special meaning that we’re taking seriously.
We aren’t using it to be blasphemous or offensive. We’re using it because the meaning is special to us. For me personally I also really respect how it is used, and I find that me using it on my daughter is a tribute to the religious tradition that has been used for so long.
I guess the bottom line is some people are going to turn their noses at it, and that’s perfectly fine. Everyone has different life experiences and religious upbringings, making us all different. I just hope everyone’s views are at least respected.
Oh I will add I am Catholic and “kyrie eleison” would be known by most practicing Catholics I think because it is often used at the beginning of the mass as pp mentioned. Someone who is Catholic might wonder if you/your daughter are Catholic (actually I mentioned [name_f]Caeli[/name_f] earlier because that’s another unique name I thought might be familiar to someone who is Catholic) but obviously these terms are not used exclusively. The term is just undoubtedly [name_m]Christian[/name_m] and I find it very beautiful as a child’s name. As long as you are ok with constant mispronunciation lol which you already said you are.
Also I have a little girl in my class named [name_f]Elise[/name_f] but her nickname is [name_f]Elsie[/name_f]. I love that because I’ve heard of grown-up [name_f]Elise[/name_f]'s who are annoyed by sometimes being mistakenly called [name_f]Elsie[/name_f]… and it seems to me like the parents of the little girl probably solved that problem by just making their daughter both [name_f]Elise[/name_f] and [name_f]Elsie[/name_f] as the nn. I think with [name_u]Kyrie[/name_u] she could have kee-ree or even kye-ree as a nickname and that could ease mispronunciation annoyance? Or not lol. Go ahead and not be bothered by being a firm keer-ee-ay corrector, like the [name_f]Caeli[/name_f] chay-lee mama. [name_m]Just[/name_m] thought I would throw that out there.
“I think with [name_u]Kyrie[/name_u] she could have kee-ree or even kye-ree as a nickname and that could ease mispronunciation annoyance? Or not lol. Go ahead and not be bothered by being a firm keer-ee-ay corrector, like the [name_f]Caeli[/name_f] chay-lee mama. [name_m]Just[/name_m] thought I would throw that out there.”
I’m not interested in giving her any nicknames, but it’s probably unavoidable for her friends or peers to give her one unless she herself has a problem with it.
Thanks for the input
As someone who goes to church semi-frequently, I never liked the tune to which we sing the [name_u]Kyrie[/name_u] in church, so it makes the name boring to me. But I agree with other posters that it seems as though you are set in your decision. I would invite you to think through this decision thoroughly, as the pronunciation and the blatant religious reference (particularly with the middle Eleison) wouldn’t make this the easiest name to carry, in my opinion.
Best of luck!
That’s a lot of name to give to an adult, let alone a child. And a name full of religion, which I don’t personally agree with (what if she decides to not be at all religious but is then lumped with a heavily religious name?) but it’s clear you’ve made your mind up regardless. The pronunciation isn’t clear for me, I ummed and arred between pronouncing it as kie-ree and keer-ree when I saw the thread title, but it is a pretty pronunciation once I read the post.
On the one hand, you’re saying you don’t know any Catholics, didn’t fully know its meaning and are using it for your own reasons/ interpretations (as if it’s not attached to a special Catholic meaning). At the same time, you’re saying you are using it with the full [name_m]Christian[/name_m] intention and meaning. That doesn’t make complete sense or seem entirely straightforward. I can see how for practising Catholics (and Greek Orthodox) it is like them using the term for God from another religion and expecting it to be OK, it wouldn’t! [name_m]Even[/name_m] if it’s the whole prayer/ petition, it is still someone called God.
Anyway, on a lighter note, I do like the look and sound of the word - and the “ey”/“ee”/“aye” sound at the end is romantic but, I should have clarified, would be butchered in my accent - it would be dragged, far from the Greek into a horrible aaaaye sound.
“On the one hand, you’re saying you don’t know any Catholics, didn’t fully know its meaning and are using it for your own reasons/ interpretations (as if it’s not attached to a special Catholic meaning). At the same time, you’re saying you are using it with the full [name_m]Christian[/name_m] intention and meaning. That doesn’t make complete sense or seem entirely straightforward. I can see how for practising Catholics (and Greek Orthodox) it is like them using the term for God from another religion and expecting it to be OK, it wouldn’t! [name_m]Even[/name_m] if it’s the whole prayer/ petition, it is still someone called God.”
I don’t see how what I’m saying doesn’t make sense or isn’t straightforward. I’m a [name_m]Christian[/name_m] and am almost completely unfamiliar with Catholicism and don’t know any Catholics in my life. I first heard the term [name_u]Kyrie[/name_u] in media (as a character’s name) and loved it. Many years later I researched the meaning and appreciated it even more. If that isn’t straightforward then I don’t know how else to explain it but hopefully that clears any questions up.
If we’re going for the “it’s offensive because it hurts someone else’s feelings/is blasphemy according to their religion” argument, it’s not going to persuade me. Like stated if it is offensive to anyone then I apologize. You’re never going to not offend someone over something, even if you don’t mean to, like I’m not intending to. I wouldn’t be offended if someone named their child “[name_m]Jesus[/name_m]” for example (people in many Hispanic countries do) To them it’s a form of appreciation, not meaning to offend.
“That’s a lot of name to give to an adult, let alone a child. And a name full of religion, which I don’t personally agree with (what if she decides to not be at all religious but is then lumped with a heavily religious name?)”
I don’t think it’s “a lot of name to give”. The first name is three syllables and the middle is four, not really that complicated to me. As for the religious ties, I suppose if she were an adult she could always get her name legally changed if it bothered her. Her choice at that point.
As someone who has lived with a difficult-to-pronounce name (although occasionally someone gets it right!) I would strongly encourage anyone thinking of naming a baby to avoid pronunciation issues. I honestly don’t think anyone would get the pronunciation you are intending for [name_u]Kyrie[/name_u] right on the first try. This would mean your child will have confusing or embarrassing introductions for the rest of her life and have to explain the meaning behind her name, which may lead to unwelcome (to her or others) religious discussions. It’s a lot of baggage to carry around, and there have been studies showing that kids with difficult-to-pronounce names don’t do as well in life, are perceived as less trustworthy, have lower self-esteem, etc. What is unique and pretty today may be seen as a burden tomorrow. I’m not saying everyone is everyone’s experience, but it is a risk you take.
The thing is that when we say “[name_u]Kyrie[/name_u] elesion”, it’s at the penitential rite during Mass. We’re not asking for God to have mercy on everyone, we’re specifically asking for forgiveness for ourselves, because we have sinned.
That is the way the prayer was created.
So you’re naming your child a prayer that means, “I have gravely sinned, please have mercy on ME.” It’s a prayer of penance: of feeling sorry for what you specifically have done and asking for forgiveness. I’m not sure why anyone would want this association attached to their child’s name, unless they are any to instill humility in them.
The non-straightforward part is that you said you chose it for its religious meaning once you understood it (but without a background understanding) but when those for whom the meaning is most important and used said they found it blasphemous and offensive, you said that not everyone has the same religious views, which I think isn’t a fair or rigorous response to that. Yes, meanings are not fixed but that doesn’t mean you can just say meanings are different for everyone so bad luck, and if my intentions are not to offend, that’s OK, case closed. You’re saying you’re taking on the original meaning, but you’re also not. That’s the rub.
(And Hispanics as a group using Jesus is not a good comparison since in other cultures, using Jesus would be blasphemous - eg I couldn’t/wouldn’t use Jesus because it wouldn’t be seen as an honour name but taking the Lord’s name in vain. It has a different, special meaning in the Hispanic context. But Kyrie as a first name has no contextual meaning for your background culture - to reiterate, as a name. Anyway, I’ll leave it here as hard to discuss online - probably better if you spoke to some more Catholics or Orthodox Greeks in person if this issue is still worth considering…)
Honestly, I am questioning this thread. I feel this person could just be trying to get people upset and worked up.
I’m most likely going to delete this thread. I expected criticism but not to this degree.