What's in a double middle name?

Spinning off of a discussion @naomiaurora and I had in the “Names on NB that make you go ‘WOW!’” thread, I’d like to open up discussion on all general aspects of three-name combos!

To start off, I’ll copy and paste my reply that spun off into the idea of this becoming its own thread:

“At risk of an overly lengthy explanation, here’s what I usually think of when trying to come up with double middle combos: rather than a specific number of syllables or anything so concrete, I tend to focus on how “substantial” I consider each name. I usually end up liking combos that have one solid/very substantial name, one that’s slightly less so but still has personality (so to speak), and one that’s lighter, almost “fillery.” I don’t really know if that makes sense, but I’ll give an example: in your [name_f]Stella[/name_f] [name_f]Margaret[/name_f] [name_f]Joy[/name_f], [name_f]Margaret[/name_f] would be the substantial name (kind of the backbone of the combo), [name_f]Stella[/name_f] would fall into the second category, and then [name_f]Joy[/name_f] would fall into the last category, the one that rounds off and completes the combo. Same for the one you mentioned, my [name_f]Silvie[/name_f] [name_f]Adriana[/name_f] [name_u]Grey[/name_u]…[name_f]Adriana[/name_f] corresponds to [name_f]Margaret[/name_f], [name_f]Silvie[/name_f] to [name_f]Stella[/name_f], and [name_u]Grey[/name_u] to [name_f]Joy[/name_f]. The order that those two combos share (2, 3, 1…1 being the least substantial and 3 being the most) is the one that I think typically works best, but they can end up in whatever order has the flow you’re looking for :)”

[name_m]How[/name_m] would you explain how you go about creating combos with two middle names? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having that extra name in there, in your opinion? If you have any additional questions about three-name combos in general, feel free to ask and answer here! :slight_smile:

  • [name_u]Lexie[/name_u]

For me, it’s all about rhythm. Our surname sounds very much like Rooster (but with an L sound instead of the T) and I am really big on flow and rhythm when it comes to sounds, I need it to sound great in my own mind, LOL. [name_u]Aubrey[/name_u] [name_f]Elizabeth[/name_f] [name_f]Grace[/name_f] and [name_u]Kenzie[/name_u] [name_f]Olivia[/name_f] [name_f]Honey[/name_f] are two double MN combos for girls that I love, and would love to use, but for the other names I like, a double MN combo is not as easy.

I think the reason why [name_u]Kenzie[/name_u] [name_f]Olivia[/name_f] [name_f]Honey[/name_f] R______ works for me, is that the repeated sounds and letters work together instead of against each other, and, while it doesn’t have to match stylistically for me, it does have to feel like I’ve just solved a puzzle with that last missing piece, if that makes any sense? [name_u]Kenzie[/name_u] [name_f]Olivia[/name_f] R_____ is beautiful, but [name_u]Kenzie[/name_u] [name_f]Olivia[/name_f] [name_f]Honey[/name_f] R_______ seems to add a little extra sparkle for me.

I’d like to try more double middle name combos but I am kind of at a loss on where to start. Maybe we could set up a “double middle it” thread?

What a fun idea for a thread!

I agree, to a degree, with you, [name_u]Lexie[/name_u]. As someone who loves two middles, I sort of remember my first attempt crashing and burning, and sort of giving up on it for a while. A thread with encouraging advice on what makes a two-middle combo work would have been so helpful! Unless you’re using all family names, I do think it is a balance, and you don’t want the combo to be overwhelming, but I’ve never thought of it in that 1-2-3 step system that you were explaining. Then again, I’m a very intuitive person, and just sort of slap names together, and if I like it, I keep it, but if not, I keep going. (Not too different from the rest of my life, hahaha.) I always knew I didn’t want stagnancy in combos, and I think too much of the same thing can be boring. (Which is probably why I’m not hugely fond of combos like [name_m]Henry[/name_m] [name_m]Frederick[/name_m], [name_f]Mary[/name_f] [name_f]Elizabeth[/name_f], [name_m]Charles[/name_m] [name_m]Edward[/name_m], or [name_f]Jane[/name_f] [name_f]Margaret[/name_f]!) I usually attempt for pairing more unusual with more familiar, plus at least one family name. I have stopped really AIMING for this, now, though, since my style has branched out into more unusual names, like [name_m]Casper[/name_m], [name_f]Adele[/name_f], etc., as opposed to [name_f]Isabelle[/name_f] and [name_m]Caleb[/name_m]. I seem to like to pair foreign names with more familiar ones, too, like [name_f]Eva[/name_f] [name_f]Madelief[/name_f] or [name_u]Schuyler[/name_u] [name_m]Ezra[/name_m].

As for why I love them, it’s partially because I love names too much and love the idea of using more of them, but, as an American [name_m]Christian[/name_m], more than one syllable feels like royalty, almost, but I like the idea of being royal children of God, and sharing that with my kids via their names. Maybe a weird thing, but it’s probably been my favorite tie to multiple middles since I’ve made the switch. Plus, it just seems so rare and cool to have two middles–I don’t know a lot of people my age that do. And it used to be a thing in my family, generations back, and I think it’d be a nice thing to get back to.

I think it very much depends on the combo and the first, but here’s how I see/do it. I don’t consider surname flow, because I haven’t a clue what it’ll be, but I do think it is important to consider if you’re lucky enough to know these things haha. Also this is more how I make newer combos now, so they don’t really take into account honouring names and stuff like that. My favourite name combos that I actually want to use and have had for ages are a little different, as some of their middles I specifically want to use for different reasons. But I do try and make the best of them, like rethink honour names or how to honour people/things to help with flow and how the combo feels. Names lower down my list or that I’m less likely to use, I give myself free reign over middles.

I find it’s a lot about flow, how it sounds out loud, and how the names fit with each other. I like to imagine names having certain images or personalities, not necessarily in loads of detail, but I like to almost think what a person or character with the name would be like. So for middles, they have to have similar or complementing personalities to the first for them to go well together. Right now I’m sorting out a lot of combos on my girls’ list, so using [name_f]Odessa[/name_f] as a random example, I see her as calm, thoughtful, caring, rational, skilled and talented, but humble and modest. It happens in this case there’s an actual character who I think has a similar personality; now I’m thinking [name_f]Odessa[/name_f] Pyrrha, not necessarily the best flow ever, but I can imagine [name_f]Odessa[/name_f] and Pyrrha being the same person, and the second middle can help with flow. So now I’m just trying to find names which suit [name_f]Odessa[/name_f] Pyrrha (particularly [name_f]Odessa[/name_f] as the first) and that will sound good and flow well. I’ve spent an hour or so going through names that I think might work, writing them down and saying them out loud. That’s really important, because even if you don’t always say middles out loud, it’s so nice to have a combo that sounds good altogether.

Obviously that’s not everything, I’d sacrifice flow for a name I think goes really well, or for an association (family, character or otherwise), but for names I’m not necessarily going to actually use, I do try to find as many options as possible. Sometimes just Googling ‘middle names for …’ or looking up Nameberry threads on a name can bring up some ideas. I’m not as fussed about what middle names I use (past some of my favourites with specific rules/honouring) so a lot of the time a name that I don’t love enough to have on my list, but kind of like or I haven’t thought about, might work really well for a certain combo. Looking for middles or firsts for the middle name once you have one, can sometimes help too. Like there might be a middle or first that suits Pyrrha a lot, and flows really well, so it might fit [name_f]Odessa[/name_f] and sound okay as middle 2. I’m liking the idea of names that to me, have a warm, autumnal feel, maybe a word of nature name, so I’m focusing on names with that tone. Words and nature names can be really useful, since they have pretty instant imagery linked to them.

I don’t really have many conscious rules about syllabic flow. I like to just say a potential combo out loud, and see how it sounds. It can really help show if any of the names have similar sounds that aren’t obvious on paper, or if anything sounds too awkward or difficult to say. One thing about flow I tend to stick to, is that one syllable names (firsts, middles, or surnames) next to each other can sound very choppy. So I generally say if there’s a one syllable middle, it should be middle 1 if the surname is also one syllable, and middle 2 if surname is more than one. In general I don’t like one syllable names in the same combo if it can be avoided, apart from a one syllable first and one syllable surname. Otherwise, I think saying is seeing. My entire name, first, middle, and double barrelled surname (far into the future I may make the first part of my surname another middle) is wholly comprised of 3 syllable names (altogether surname is 6 syllables), but it sounds fine. Not the best, but not awful or difficult at all. I think there are certain syllable combinations that don’t work, but I’ve never thought about it much. It’s something that just sounds weird or wrong when I say it, so I move on and alter the combo. Sometimes I’ve gone “that sounds kinda long, maybe I’ll only have a 1 or 2 syllable second middle or switch the middles,”, but again, saying it is important. I’m usually not too fussed about how long a combo is on paper either (within reason); up until now I’ve rarely used my entire name on paperwork much, and if there’s space for both middles, there’ll be space for both (if that makes sense).

I’ve got some personal preferences for combos too. I try to avoid having any of the names having the same ending sound, except when it comes to girls and -a endings, which I don’t think are particularly prominent, so don’t stand out too much. In that case I don’t mind two -a names together, but never three, although that does depend on what you think sounds good. I’m not the biggest fan of alliteration either, so I tend to avoid it, but I don’t mind the first name and second middle sharing an initial, if the whole combo works. Whilst I think nature and word names can really add some magic to a combo, and complete the imagery perfectly, I try to limit myself to one per combo. Then sometimes I get stuck on a middle name that’s really versatile and works in loads of combos, so it’ll keep cropping up a lot. They tend to be names with awesome imagery that happens to suit a lot of names I like examples being Nightingale, [name_f]Snow[/name_f], [name_f]Beatrix[/name_f], [name_u]Wren[/name_u], [name_f]Fae[/name_f]/[name_f]Fey[/name_f], [name_u]Winter[/name_u], [name_m]William[/name_m], [name_m]Archie[/name_m], [name_m]Arthur[/name_m], [name_m]Horatio[/name_m]. Inadvertently I seem to prefer two long names and a shorter one for girls especially, but I’m not entirely where that came from haha.

That was longer than I thought, and I’m not sure if it makes sense, but I didn’t realise how much there is to it lol. [name_m]How[/name_m] difficult it is to find a combo can really differ between different names. For some both middles jump out straight away, for some just one, or not at all. Style, origin, or sound can limit what middles work too in some cases. I have far fewer names I like for boys than girls, so it can depend on gender, but I’ll hush now ;).

For me I pay attention to syllable flow a lot, however, it’s not always perfect. I go with what I love also. If it doesn’t flow perfectly then oh well, I am totally in love with these names and it doesn’t matter. I think a good variation in syllable’s works well. Whether it’s 3-2-1, 2-3-1, 1-3-2, etc. But like I said sometimes it just doesn’t work out like that.

For example, [name_m]Conrad[/name_m] [name_m]Maximilian[/name_m] [name_m]Otto[/name_m] (2-4-2) seems OK at first until you take into account my (future) last name [name_m]Thompson[/name_m]. So, [name_m]Conrad[/name_m] [name_m]Maximilian[/name_m] [name_m]Otto[/name_m] [name_m]Thompson[/name_m] (2-4-2-2). The flow is far from perfect but [name_m]Otto[/name_m] is my father’s middle name which means a lot to me. I love how the names feel together overall so in this case I overlook syllable flow.

As far a “feel”. I tend go with romantic, European, & whimsical. So each combo I try to incorporate that feel. [name_f]Calista[/name_f] [name_f]Celestine[/name_f] [name_f]Fay[/name_f] is a good example of that. [name_f]Calista[/name_f]=romantic, [name_f]Celestine[/name_f]=European and bit of whimsy, [name_f]Fay[/name_f]=whimsical. I also love alliteration for certain letters (C, L, E, G, & A) but would never do all three names with the same letter. They can either be right next to each other ([name_f]Evelina[/name_f] [name_f]Esmee[/name_f] [name_f]Lily[/name_f]) or have a name separating them ([name_f]Giselle[/name_f] [name_f]Thalia[/name_f] [name_f]Grace[/name_f]).

Overall, I like using two middles because I am a name nerd and can use more of the names I love!

Okay, so I’m going to double-post on purpose (gasp) because I have two separate answers: my personal process and what I’ve observed from compiling a spreadsheet of all the names mentioned in the “WOW” thread.

My personal process for coming up with triples is similar to @myosotis’ in a lot of ways. I also totally see what you mean about names being different levels of “substantial,” although for me I think it’s more about type of name (classic, international, girly, word, monosyllabic) than substance (although there’s overlap, of course—certain types of name feel more substantial than others, and some names fall into more than one category!) I’ve always admired @[name_u]Ash[/name_u]'s ability to pair classics with unusual/international names in just the right amounts (I feel like my own list is all varying degrees of unusual, but I try to pair unusual with slightly-less-unusual, or with unusual-in-a-different-way, haha.)

For me, flow is probably the #1 consideration. I don’t have a lot of family names, and those are the only thing ([name_f]IMO[/name_f]) more important than flow.

I pretty much agree with this. There aren’t really hard and fast rules for what flows well, although I think there are certain big things to avoid (slurring back-to-back letters, like “[name_f]Juno[/name_f] [name_f]Olivia[/name_f],” names that accidentally make a word, like “[name_f]Emma[/name_f] [name_f]Noor[/name_f],” or too many repeated letters, etc.)

The other big thing I think about is balance—I generally don’t want my combos to feel all-one-note-y. Something like [name_f]Lily[/name_f] [name_f]Claire[/name_f] [name_f]Elizabeth[/name_f] or [name_f]Nimue[/name_f] [name_f]Artemisia[/name_f] [name_f]Thisbe[/name_f] might flow well, but in both cases the three names all have roughly the same vibe and so aren’t that interesting together. [name_f]Lily[/name_f] [name_f]Artemisia[/name_f] [name_f]Claire[/name_f] would be much better, because it still flows well, but it’s more balanced.

When I’m trying to come up with middles for something, I’ll use flow as a starting point and make a huge list of everything that pops into my head that flows well, whether it’s on my list or not (similar to what @myosotis said, I think sometimes a name you’ve never considered before can sound just right in a combo!)

For example, I wanted a second middle for [name_f]Esme[/name_f] [name_f]Leocadia[/name_f], so I made a list:

[name_f]Esme[/name_f] [name_f]Leocadia[/name_f] [name_f]Lilac[/name_f]
[name_f]Esme[/name_f] [name_f]Leocadia[/name_f] [name_f]Lux[/name_f]
[name_f]Esme[/name_f] [name_f]Leocadia[/name_f] [name_f]Saffron[/name_f]…

and so on and so on—as many options as I can think of that flow and that I don’t dislike. I usually end up with 5-7 choices. Then I go do something else, and revisit the list days or hours later. When I look at it with fresh eyes, I have an easy time sorting out what works and what doesn’t, and I go through and delete the ones that don’t have that spark I’m after. Sometimes there’s one combo that sticks around in my head even while I’m not doing name stuff, and that’s usually the clear winner. Other times I’ll make a poll or a forum post to get outside opinions, like I did with [name_u]Emmett[/name_u] [name_m]Fidelio[/name_m]. And occasionally I’ll keep two options on the list because I like them both for different reasons, like with [name_f]Sancia[/name_f] [name_f]Leonora[/name_f] [name_u]Blue[/name_u]/[name_f]Sancia[/name_f] [name_f]Leonora[/name_f] [name_f]Mathilde[/name_f] ([name_u]Blue[/name_u] creates contrast and packs an unexpected punch, but [name_f]Mathilde[/name_f] adds to the regal, old-world European feel without being all one note.)

Anyway. I try to give myself goals rather than rules—rules limit you, but goals give you something to aim for. In a general sense, I aim for combos that flow well and feel like the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (the “missing puzzle piece” feeling that @[name_u]Haley[/name_u] was talking about.) I also try to have both double and triple combo versions for my favorite first names.

ETA: this is suuuper long so I went back and bolded the important parts. Sorry if that makes it look preachy or shouty :s

I’m not done compiling the spreadsheet yet, but here are the most popular triple combos from the “Names on NB that make you go WOW” thread, based on # of mentions:

[name_f]Grace[/name_f] [name_f]Odilia[/name_f] [name_f]Lily[/name_f]
[name_f]Lily[/name_f] [name_f]Anne[/name_f] [name_u]Vesper[/name_u]
[name_f]Persephone[/name_f] [name_f]Elysia[/name_f] [name_f]Willow[/name_f]
[name_f]Violet[/name_f] [name_f]Emilia[/name_f] [name_f]Mary[/name_f]
[name_f]Isabelle[/name_f] [name_f]Aurora[/name_f] [name_f]Grace[/name_f]
[name_f]Lily[/name_f] [name_f]Octavia[/name_f] [name_f]Jane[/name_f]
[name_f]Elisabeth[/name_f] Amélie [name_f]Jane[/name_f]
[name_f]Isabelle[/name_f] [name_f]Rowena[/name_f] [name_u]Clare[/name_u]
[name_f]Mary[/name_f] [name_f]Ophelia[/name_f] [name_f]Snow[/name_f]

[name_m]Magnus[/name_m] [name_u]Orion[/name_u] [name_m]Frey[/name_m]
[name_m]Peregrine[/name_m] [name_m]Lysander[/name_m] [name_u]James[/name_u]
[name_m]Casper[/name_m] [name_m]Nathaniel[/name_m] [name_u]Eden[/name_u]
[name_u]Emmett[/name_u] [name_m]Nathaniel[/name_m] [name_u]Rhys[/name_u]
[name_u]August[/name_u] [name_f]Veridian[/name_f] [name_u]James[/name_u]
[name_m]Perseus[/name_m] [name_m]Arthur[/name_m] [name_u]Flynn[/name_u]
[name_m]Edmund[/name_m] [name_m]Frederic[/name_m] [name_m]Altair[/name_m]
[name_m]Julian[/name_m] [name_m]Balthasar[/name_m] [name_m]Fox[/name_m]
[name_m]Nathaniel[/name_m] [name_u]Roscoe[/name_u] Wilde

All of the girls’ combos have 15+ mentions each, while the boys’ ones have 10+. Anyone notice any trends or patterns?

My partner and I decided to go with double middles, so that we could have two unique names and a family name in the combination. I really like having two names that we love and specially chose mixed with a family/honour name. Somehow it seems just that bit extra special.

People always make the “but they’ll hardly ever use the middle names” excuse all the time, but I don’t see that as important. When you choose a name for a child, it should unique and precious. Being different and untraditional just makes it more so!