Occasionally the idea of cultural appropriation is brought up in naming forums, and I was wondering what the general consensus was about what is/is not acceptable. Most often, the claim is made against names that are actually offensive when used outside of the group of origin- i.e., [name]Cohen[/name], [name]India[/name], et cetera. But could names with religious connotations- [name]Bodhi[/name] or [name]Krishna[/name], for example- also be considered offensive if used by people with little or no knowledge of the principles of that religion? Would it even extend to foreign secular names like [name]Abdul[/name] or Sauda? Iām interested in your thoughts!
I think common sense needs to take precedence in these situations. I didnāt realize how offensive naming could be until I discovered a lot of my OWN history and culture and realizing how I felt when people take things that they donāt understand and use them to their own devices. I guess āoffenseā isnāt the right word, I donāt get āoffendedā very easily, it takes quite a lot - uncomfortable and sad is more like it, cheated, almost.
There is a fine line here, though - yes, [name]India[/name] is offensive to see on a white person, period. What happened over there with British colonialism basically equates to the Holocaust in Germany. I have seen people try and defend this by saying that āwell, we donāt learn about that in the schools in our area, so it doesnāt apply to us, we wouldnāt have an issueā, Iām sorry, but I call BS on that. [name]Just[/name] because it didnāt happen in your tiny little bubble of the world does not mean that it did not effect millions of people. Then we come to the fact that we are in the day and age of globalization - it is becoming increasingly likely that you will go to school with, work with or interact with people from all corners of the globe throughout your life, to not acknowledge that is just ignorant.
That being said - I do not think that making snap judgments on someones name based on what they look like is ok, either. I come from a VERY mixed family, I happen to identify as Caucasian, but I have close family members from all corners of the world - just because I LOOK white does not mean that using a name from a different culture does not hold huge significance or family importance to me. Then there is the fact that adoption from all over the world is becoming increasingly common - you just never know who is related to who or who has connections with what.
I think itās best not to use names that are sacred to another culture/religion at all. Iād say using names that are just common NAMES from another culture is perfectly acceptable, but that those might sometimes be confusing and hard to wear for a child/adult later on. Iāve met a freckled redheaded girl named [name]Leilani[/name] and an [name]Asian[/name] boy named [name]Javier[/name], and they both hated being asked how they got their names. They were asked often, because everyone they met just assumed there must be an interesting story behind such an otherwise unexpected name choice.
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Well said!
I agree pretty much with what @flick said about [name]India[/name] though I just donāt really comment on that one, I donāt think [name]Cohen[/name] is ever an acceptable first name, Jews wouldnāt use it as a first name and I donāt see why others think they should. I also donāt buy into the āwe didnāt knowā argument. Itās 2013, did you really not even google a baby name to see what people thought? Especially a name that might be foreign to your culture?
I know a white kid named [name]Bodhi[/name] and as far as I know there hasnāt been any negative feedback on his name but I wouldnāt use it because Iām not sure how acceptable it would be and [name]Krishna[/name] seems too religious for me as well.
I justā¦ wow. I canāt even begin to describe how appalled I am at that comparison.
As a Jew Iām not appalled by the comparison. I donāt think itās 1:1 accurate as a comparison since [name]Britain[/name] was, to my best knowledge, being more an incidentally murderous occupying Empire than an intentionally ākill them to the last man/woman/childā campaign but to say it was a genocidal effect and that naming your white kid [name]India[/name] isnāt much more tasteful than naming them Reich is hard-hitting and a bit of a shock for many, but Iām not sure its unfair.
While I wouldnāt liken the comparison to the Holocaust, it canāt be denied that [name]Britain[/name] invaded almost every country in the world, murdering millions of citizens on their way in their quest for power and domination. [name]India[/name] is one example, [name]Ireland[/name] comes to mind, too.
Back on topic - Iām not a fan of names from other cultures being used unless the family have a direct link to that culture.
Yeah, Iāve found itās best to not discuss [name]India[/name] on NB because youāll get that British colonialsim argument. But feel free to talk about [name]Israel[/name] and [name]Jordan[/name].
I agree with this. Iām Jewish, I had family members die in the holocaust. [name]Don[/name]'t compare these things.
And I know Iām going to take heat and hate for this, but in [name]England[/name] there are no issues with little [name]India[/name]'s. [name]India[/name] and [name]Britain[/name] has a great relationship, and unless you live here and know how our countries are together, please donāt pretend to know. I have many British friends with ties to [name]India[/name], I have many British-[name]Indian[/name] friends and ārealā [name]Indian[/name] family members, no one has an issue with this.
Oh, yes, that is so true.
This is an interesting topicāobviously things like [name]Cohen[/name] and [name]Krishna[/name] are off limits, but recently Iāve been interested in the controversy surrounding the more gray-area names like [name]India[/name]. Iām in the US and I know someone (Caucasian) with the mn [name]India[/name] whose parents donāt have any ties to the country. Sheās one of those people who mentions her middle name frequently (her first name is unisex), and to my knowledge no one has ever commented, though we live in an area with a pretty big NRI population.
I think it wise to stay away from religious names that would offend (i.e. [name]Cohen[/name]), but I think you can use names that arenāt part of your culture.
And when a name becomes a part of a culture? I donāt understand how [name]India[/name] being tied to British Colonialism makes it off-limits to someone who has no ties to [name]Britain[/name]. In the Southeast U.S. itās a rather genteel and old-fashioned ladiesā name. (See: [name]India[/name] [name]Wilkes[/name], Mr. & Mrs. [name]Bridge[/name], my great-grandmother)
To say its relationship to British Colonialism makes it off-limits makes as much sense to me as saying [name]Georgia[/name] is off-limits because they practiced slavery there. [name]Say[/name] what? Iām not saying youāre wrong. Iām saying I donāt understand your argument. [name]Feel[/name] free to elucidate.
I know a little [name]India[/name], her parents met in [name]India[/name] whilst volunteering at a school. They have since been back and have volunteered many times over. The name is of great significance to them, and they love the country (happy people, beautiful scenery, yummy food). I think that is a valid reason for using the name, despite the history of the country. Its a gray area for sure, knowing if it is safe to use or not but they are happy with their choice and are aware of the history.
That said Iām happy for people using names from other cultures, the world is changing, globalization is growing and we are becoming more knowledgeable of many things. Names should reflect thatā¦
However I do think its wise to stay away from sacred names (religious) such as [name]Cohen[/name]. It is always advised to research any names you are thinking about using, there is no point making the excuse that you did not know. Google is your best friend.
I just think itās ignorant and silly to use a name from any language or culture that you arenāt completely familiar with (even if your grandparents were from [name]Italy[/name], you arenāt really Italian; if you like video games, you arenāt Japanese; if you spent your honeymoon in Thailand, you arenāt Thai). You risk offending others or exposing your child to ridicule should she ever chose to be a part of said culture.
(Iām not including āplace namesā here because they have been used as names for centuries and more a question religious/poetical/inspirational context than cultural appropriation.)
I do have a problem with people:
- mispronouncing/misusing foreign names ([name]Elena[/name] as āuh-lay-naā, EsmĆ© on girlsā¦)
- naming their kids random words in other languages (which arenāt used as names originally)
- using names without understanding their religious/political/cultural/generational connotations ([name]Cohen[/name], [name]Adolf[/name], [name]Mohammed[/name], [name]Kaiser[/name], [name]Lucifer[/name], you get the point.)
But the problem with dismissing names as being ānot from a language or culture youāre familiar withā is that itās too restrictive and makes no allowances for linguistic borrowing. My name, [name]Melissa[/name], is Greek. I know so little about Greece itās terrifying; am I therefore not entitled to my name? Quite frankly, I donāt know what my cultural heritage is, so where does that leave me? Iām not French, so [name]Nicole[/name] and [name]Danielle[/name] are out. Iām not Italian, so forget [name]Sophia[/name]. My husbandās entire family is Cuban, but neither of us has ever been there and we donāt speak Spanish. So we shouldnāt name our son after his grandfather, one of the finest men Iāve ever known, because weāre not actually Cuban??
[name]Just[/name] out of curiosity, how is EsmĆ© supposed to be pronounced? I and everyone else I know says āes-may.ā Is that wrong? Also, I agree that pronouncing [name]Elena[/name] āuh-lay-naā is not quite correct, but the authentic Spanish pronunciation is more or less close to that. I consider the "uh-lay-na pronunciation not so much a blatant mispronunciation but more of an accented pronunciation.
Iām not quite talking about [name]Sophia[/name] and [name]Melissa[/name]- itās more names that are still very closely tied with another culture or religion. [name]Sophia[/name] and [name]Melissa[/name] are your neighbors down the street. [name]Ekaterina[/name] and [name]Azzurra[/name], not so much, although I donāt think the use of those names would be offensive. Iām talking more about names that hold very special significance to a culture- so [name]Cohen[/name] yes, [name]Noah[/name] no.
The problem with [name]India[/name] is that it exists as a name SOLELY BECAUSE of British Colonialism. It literally became a name because parents were inspired by the British [name]East[/name] [name]India[/name] Companyās success there. The British rule resulted in tens of millions of deaths by violence, not to mention the millions of [name]Indian[/name] deaths that resulted from famine caused by the BEICās policies. I understand that not everyone knows of or is offended by the history of [name]India[/name] the name, but I still think itās pretty inappropriate, even if you have other ties to the country. There are lots of ways to honor that without using this particular name.
Anyway, thatās not the point of the post- I was more wondering about names like [name]Bodhi[/name].
Completely agree with this. I think it must depend on where you are. I know several people called [name]India[/name], none of whom actually come from the country, and I have several [name]Indian[/name] friends. And also, I wouldnāt name a daughter [name]England[/name], where I come from, just because I think it would be odd. I can see conversations going like this:
āIām [name]England[/name] and Iām Englishā
āBut which one is your name?ā
No, it wouldnāt really work for me, but I see where people are coming from.
I agree, our cultural borders are slowly dissolving and I feel that can be reflected In our use of names. I think we have to remember that at one point in time all of our ācommonā and familiar names were once strongly tied to another culture but because it became commonly used by everyone it lost those ties and became acceptable to use by other cultures. But respect for religion should be taken into consideration.