Hot Takes? 🤭

[josieaitken]

If someone sees it as an honor name…it’s an honor name

[venezio]

honor names can be whatever the parents want, rather connected by meaning, look, sound, variation, or something else. all that matters is the name makes sense to the parents

[AdroitArtemis]

[name_u]Charon[/name_u] is lovely! I honestly don’t see a problem with the mythology association of [name_u]Charon[/name_u].

However, you are correct. I understand some people do do research on the names they choose, but a lot don’t. That’s all I was referencing. I should have worded it differently.

[Byan-kuh]

This is not meant as an insult…just MY personal hot take >.<
NB can not and will not make me like these names:
[name_f]Ottilie[/name_f] - what even is this
[name_f]Ambrosia[/name_f] - coagulated pudding dish
[name_f]Clementine[/name_f] - country. seersucker wearin, banjo strummin’, cow tippin country (I’m from the south, im allowed to say it lol)
[name_f]Beatrix[/name_f] - be a trick. that’s all i can see.

[shells15]

I can see that now. I think the wording did throw me on your previous post.

[regionlatbest]

Personally, I mostly prefer when an honor name isnt as obvious. I’d rather give my child their own name, rather than someone else’s. There are exceptions to it, but I enjoy finding subtle and sweet connections to people I love. I think it’s really sweet to have that association be there, without it being extremely obvious (a [name_f]Helen[/name_f] who was obviously named after her grandma Helen). So whether that’s using a name that shares the meaning of my mom’s name, my grandma’s favorite flower, a name that brings up a memory I share with my niece, a name that makes someone I love’s favorite song play in my head, a name that reminds me of home or a place I’d like to honor. I know the connection is there, I would know I was giving that sweet association to my child, and my child would know they were given a name with meaning. It doesn’t really matter much to me if it’s obvious enough for other people to see it right away. I or my child could share the reasons why it’s an honor name, or choose to keep it something special only known by a few people. It’s still an honor name though, because I chose it with the intent to honor someone. So it’s not me justifying using a name I love (even though discovering a name you love also honors someone is really nice), because I’m actively choosing the name specifically to honor.

Also there are traditions in other cultures where you can’t or almost never use the person’s actual name, and those honor names are every bit as valid as when someone gives their daughter their grandmother’s name.

I have a migraine right now, and really hope this comment made sense😅

[Rosebeth]

[name_u]An[/name_u] honor name can be anything. I used Zakynthos to honor my brother, for example, because it holds special significance for the both of us.
The only one that doesn’t really make sense to me is when someone uses a name as an honor name because it “sounds similar” (like [name_u]Nick[/name_u] to honor someone named Rik).

[passiflora]

@Inlakesh

We understand the context, but not all of us were brought up in religious households, not all of us immediately think of the bible when we hear the name.
It’s not like Lucifer, wherein the Biblical figure is basically the only use of the name, Lilith has been used for other things. People, Characters, The Lilith Faire…

Actually, I’ve seen posts where it seemed fairly clear that the person actually did not know the full background and connotations of the name. In some cases, people think they do (“Lilith/Jezebel=girl power!!”) but are actually underinformed.

I can’t think of a single recognizable example of Lilith being used that isn’t very obviously meant to play on the Jewish character.

[venezio]

you seem to be forgetting that some people genuinely just do not care. a non-religious person who was brought up in a non-religious household isn’t going to associate Lilith with the person in the bible, and therefore will most likely not care what the religious association is. that doesn’t mean they don’t know the story behind the name. it just doesn’t matter to everyone

[OpheliaFlora]

And even if people will associate with with that character (and who says other people will even know who she is; they won’t have done extensive research either), I think you can make a case for not using the names of almost all biblical characters, even the major ones, because of negative implications, just take [name_m]Abraham[/name_m], for example. No one says anything about people using that as a name!

[MagnoliaE]

Thats because the two are nowhere near the same level: [name_m]Abraham[/name_m] is a patriarch, who are among the most important figures in Judaism, while [name_f]Lilith[/name_f] is a demon, and a child murdering one at that. Thats like saying that because some people name their children [name_m]Jesus[/name_m] and he wasn’t all good then it’s ok to name your child [name_m]Lucifer[/name_m].

(I’d also argue that [name_m]Abraham[/name_m] is more “feminist” as a name since the Binding of [name_m]Isaac[/name_m] warns people to not put their devotion to God over their family)

[OpheliaFlora]

Abraham was really just an example because that’s one person that I got taught about in school whose story frightened me and that I still remember 20 years later; Lilith I was never taught about and only know the demon connection through tv shows (but that was when I was a teenager and the character was quite cool). What I’m trying to say is that there are much more famous/known characters from religions who are not necessarily associated with positive stories and people still use them even though the knowledge about them is much more wide-spread (vs more negative minor characters).
Also, I don’t understand what would be feminist about Abraham?

Also, I think, just as a general rule of thumb, if the name is not offensive (as in naming your child “Ihatereligion” - not sure how that would be pronounced but you get the gist) and only negatively associated in a certain culture, I would hope people (especially those that preach kindness) would not hold someone’s name against them; and if they do, then I wouldn’t want my kid around them nor would I expose my kid to those people.

Edit: I think that Judas, for example, would have a much stronger case for not being used as he’s such a central character to the most basic of religious teachings.

[Rosebeth]

@OpheliaFlora

Also, I don’t understand what would be feminist about Abraham?

I know you didn’t ask me, but: some people see Abraham as one of the first feminists because he treats his wife Sarah with respect, holds her in high regard and at some point refers to her as his superior. My husband’s name is Abram, so I’m quite familiar with this name

[hannahhh]

bea prn. bay-uh >>>>> bea prn. bee

both are lovely names though

[firefly305]

There was a normal [name_f]Lilith[/name_f] in the sitcom [name_m]Frasier[/name_m] – I don’t think there was a great uproar about her name. I consider myself a pretty dyed-in-the-wool [name_u]Christian[/name_u] and I’m not that fussed over it. [name_f]Lorelei[/name_f] also has a sinister backstory, but if a name’s pretty enough and not as notorious as, say, [name_f]Jezebel[/name_f], then I’d wager that the association will eventually fade for most.

[firefly305]

To be fair, while your point is valid, @passiflora’s point is also valid about bringing up the issue with potential Liltith parents, who may appreciate understanding Lilith’s religious connotation before committing.

[firefly305]

Great point! I mean, [name_m]Abraham[/name_m] almost murders his son, [name_m]Isaac[/name_m] (in the earliest version of the Biblical text, he actually succeeds).

[Theodora_Phoenix]

I dislike [name_f]Lilith[/name_f], but not because of any particular associations or connotations. I just don’t like the way it sounds. I don’t particularly like [name_f]Edith[/name_f], [name_u]Meredith[/name_u], or [name_f]Gwyneth[/name_f], either.

[MagnoliaE]

I mean, I’d consider a story where one of the morals is “question and challenge traditional (patriarchal) authority” more feminist than the origin story of a child murderer.

@Rosebeth

some people see Abraham as one of the first feminists because he treats his wife Sarah with respect, holds her in high regard and at some point refers to her as his superior.

This too.

@OpheliaFlora

only negatively associated in a certain culture, I would hope people (especially those that preach kindness) would not hold someone’s name against them;

This is a different argument than I thought we were having, and one that I frankly don’t have the energy to get into.

[OpheliaFlora]

@MagnoliaE

@OpheliaFlora

only negatively associated in a certain culture, I would hope people (especially those that preach kindness) would not hold someone’s name against them;

This is a different argument than I thought we were having, and one that I frankly don’t have the energy to get into.

I mean that’s the base of the argument against the name though, that it is negatively associated for certain groups and that these people may react negatively to the name and therefore the child -that’s what started the argument in the first place.
All I’m saying is that it’s something you (the general you, not you) can choose to take offence in or not, religion is a choice / belief system after all, however, if you do find it to be offensive - for whatever reason, I hope you won’t hold it against the child, just as I wouldn’t hold the name of a kid named T*ump against them (even though I’d be horrified) as they did not choose it themselves nor would they be aware of it’s implications.

As for the feminism part, I still don’t see it in a story about two dudes, though I understand that it might be present in the broader context of Abraham’s story as @rosebeth mentioned. However, I also wouldn’t personally claim that Lilith is a feminist character. But feminism is a concept, that, like so many others, is interpreted differently by each individual, and, with few exceptions, rightfully so.