Icelandic Name Lawsuit

General Name Discussion
1

http://news.yahoo.com/icelandic-girl-fights-her-own-name-074758814.html

In this article, a teenage girl named Blaer, meaning “light breeze” in Icelandic, is fighting for her right to use her name. Iceland has an approved list of names and the priest that baptized her mistakenly allowed the name. So on all her official documents, it just says Stulka, meaning “girl”. Apparently the name doesn’t pass muster b/c the word takes the masculine article. Also, the article says that in Iceland, a lot more weight is given to a person’s first name, that they are known much more by their first name than their last, so I’m sure sense of identity is even more wrapped up in it for these people than those from countries that put more emphasis on one’s surname.

I was wondering what you all thought of this. I know many of you have an aversion to masculine names used on girls and there are probably names we all sort of wish people wouldn’t or couldn’t use, but a list of approved names (1,712 male names and 1,853 female names) seems so limiting.

2

I think Blaer is a fine name, and the meaning doesn’t call any problems. it would be kind of depressing to have to choose from a select few names, especially since everyone in the US and other countries will crowd source names or only choose under 1000 most popular to get an interesting name, it would be pretty hard with only a few choices under that!

3

I’m really mixed on the “government name list” issue

Pros: everyone knows how to spell and pronounce your name, everyone knows if you’re male or female by your name, it prevents people from using names that are cruel or will lead to extreme teasing, dedicated names means they are easy to recognize as names and you never have to wonder whether something is a name or not.
Also, I see from the article that parents are allowed to apply to a committee for names they want to be approved.

Cons: stifles creativity and means that there are more repeats, though in a country as small as Iceland, picking a name that’s 1800th on the list would mean there are very few other kids with the same name

So I guess, as much as I love names, there are more pros than cons, especially in terms of the governments view of the matter.

Regarding using masculine names for girls and vice versa, I think it’s more of an issue in languages where all nouns have gender. I definitely am not in favor of naming girls [name]Emmett[/name] and [name]Elliot[/name], but I don’t find a bit of flexibility to be a huge problem–especially in a ethnically diverse population.

4

Government dictating what can and can’t be used as a name is utterly terrifying… The epitome of oppression under the guise of “knowing what’s best.” Stepping down from my political soapbox, I find it very sad that this poor individual is reduced to being referred to as “girl” and is fighting for her own name, (which has a lovely meaning.) This name is not ridiculous or offensive, the archaic law is. I will say no more, as I fear my strong opinion on the matter might become offensive.

5

I understand your opinion, but I would consider this a small matter compared to other issues. It seems like something people in [name]America[/name] would get caught up on because it seems to affect their daily life and is easily understood, while they let other more important issues such as budget concerns, law enforcement, tax laws, etc. slide because they are more complex.

When you really think about it, what percentage of the population has names that are represented in the top 1800? Probably a very high percentage (and many below that are different spellings or small variations). Most people would not be affected by this at all. And they have a system in place for those who want approval for a name that is outside of the list. To me, it seems like a very Germanic, organized type of law–not just a way for the government to control your life.

6

Honestly, when the language has gendered nouns, it makes sense for names to correspond. In Icelandic, names have to also be able to be properly conjugated, so I definitely see the problem with having a name that does not even allow Icelandic speakers to speak properly when referring to the person.

The girl was never legally named Blaer, so while I originally read it as “They are making her change her name”, this is not the case. Plus, it’s not her fault she was mistakenly baptized with the name.

I seriously feel like this is why people need to do their research when picking names for their kids. I do think it’s weird though, that the Blaer the mother knew had the name approved (though, maybe this was a male Blaer. The gender was never stated) and the daughter’s name was rejected.

Maybe I’m too much of a “let it roll off your back”-type but if this happened to me, I’d pick another name for legal purposes, and ask to be called Blaer as a nickname. Pretty simple. Like that guy mentioned in the article. You say, “This is what I want to be called, regardless of what my passport says.” That is actually what I do in my daily life as [name]Lucia[/name] (and [name]Lucy[/name], which is what I go by 90% of the time) is not what’s on my passport, birth certificates or transcripts.

I am pretty in favour of name laws for language preservation and accordance, and I don’t have an issue with a set list of pre-approved names. I’m pretty sure for every country with a set list, there’s an opportunity to appeal or to have a name added, and they are constantly approving new names. Thinking in terms of a multilingual/ multinational family, most countries also have a more relaxed set of rules for them. I’ve found in my research (wrote an enthnography about this a couple years ago) that laws are generally in place first for the child’s well-being. Blaer can not be properly conjugated for a female. It just doesn’t work. I think this concept is very, very difficult for people to grasp when they are are unilingual speakers of a language with ungendered nouns.

I’d be curious to see how the character in the book had her name conjugated, because it seems very strange that there’d be a whole book in Icelandic about a female named Blaer, and it not making grammatical sense. Unless that was the point of the book? There is obviously a way to make it work, provided the book was written in Icelandic.

7

That’s very interesting. I didn’t even realize that Icelandic actually conjugates the name itself not just the verbs. That would be very confusing. How can she even “go by” a masculine name then? How do her friends and family conjugate her name?

I agree that they aren’t saying she can’t go by whatever she wants, it’s just for legal reasons that it’s an issue. I would just change my name to the closest female name to Blaer and go about my business.

8

Yep, apparently names get conjugated in to a possessive form. I’m not sure how important it might be, or how frequently this conjugation occurs, though.

9

Icelandic is a gorgeous language with a complex formal grammar. It has declensions, wherein nouns are inherently masculine/feminine and have rigid grammatical rules when they’re used as the object of a sentence, the subject, the possessive, and something called the dative (where you’re kind of a recipient). This, in linguistic terms, means they’re gendered in FORM and in INFLECTION. Concrete examples:

Blaer writes a blog [nominative]
I love Blaer [accusative]
That’s Blaer’s blog! [genitive]
Give the book to Blaer [dative]

In each of these sentences, were they in Icelandic, Blaer would actually be spelled differently-- and would be an entirely different word. The rules of these declensions are different for masculine and feminine names (and plurals, but that rarely affects given names unless one is discussing a group of Blaers). Since blaer is an actual object-word in Icelandic, it’s masculine, and when one discusses a nice breeze, one uses the masculine rules of grammar. Suddenly using feminine declensions would be tough-- just as tough as, in English, saying something like “people Is crazy” or “Subject agreement Are difficult.” Feels wrong, and you have to think hard to make it happen.

Keep in mind that the entire nation of Iceland has less than 300,000 people. I don’t know how many babies are born annually-- let’s say 3000 (1%, pretty in line with most developed nations). If you have a list of 1800 possible names, you average out to less than two babies per name were they to be evenly distributed.

Iceland is especially fascinating since they have not yet abandoned their patronymics. There still are no last names in Iceland, just ‘son of’ and ‘daughter of.’ People in the phone book are listed by their first name-- i.e. [name]Bjorn[/name] Halldorson is under the Bs, with all the other Bjorns in the country. Since the first name has especial importance I can see why Iceland, more than any other nation, is relatively uptight about this.

Great article, thanks for sharing [name]Alex[/name]!

10

I think the list is big enough to not be limiting. Americans love to get up in arms over government “intruding on their freedom” but really how many are actually choosing names out of the top 1000? Or even the top 200? I’d probably be affected since many of my faves don’t rank but most Americans could still find their favorites on a list of 1000+ names.

In Blaer’s case, her mother said she learned the name wasn’t on the register only after the priest who baptized the child later informed her he had mistakenly allowed it.

Assuming the girl was baptized as a baby, the mom knew the name wasn’t approved yet raised the girl as Blaer anyway. She should have chose an approved name as soon as she found out instead of letting the girl grow up and become attached to Blaer

“I had no idea that the name wasn’t on the list, the famous list of names that you can choose from,”

She didn’t bother to research her kid’s name? :roll:

11

I have mixed feelings on the name law thing- on the one hand, it does prevent creativity and is sometimes unnecessarily rigid and limiting, but at the same time, I don’t think parents have some god-given right to name their kids whatever they want. This is an identity a child has to live with forever, not just a fun nickname you give yourself. And it can end disastrously- remember the cases of children named [name]Talula[/name] does the Hula from [name]Hawaii[/name], Marijuana Pepsi, and, worst of all, [name]Adolf[/name] Hitler [name]Campbell[/name]? A name like that is a huge red flag about the ability to parent (or lack thereof.)

However, different cultures have always had different naming traditions and that should be respected and seen in the context of the culture- for example, the Dobe Ju/'hoansi (one of the tongue click peoples of Southern [name]Africa[/name]) the eldest son MUST be named after their father’s father, eldest daughter after their father’s mother, then subsequent children after their mother’s parents and alternating between the parent’s relatives as they go on. There are other cultures that have naming taboos; people are named with very obscure words (like “leaf of a thorny plant”) so that when they die, their name will never be said aloud again, which is seen as a form of respect. These cultures don’t have these rules because they want to infringe on somebody’s rights or think they know better than parents, it’s just become a very strong tradition and people forget that there are other ways names can happen. [name]Imagine[/name] how confused people would be if I decided to give my child a surname that no one else in the family shared- it would be enormously confusing! [name]Every[/name] culture, even those that seem close to American culture, has its own naming traditions and rules. In some places, a really odd name or break from a certain tradition (like our surnames) actually would be a huge disservice to the child and source of great confusion, so the law really does protect the child’s rights and dignity.

That said, I feel sorry for this girl! I don’t know why they can’t come up with a solution- what a nightmare!

12

I think part of what was so attention-catching was that whatever went wrong, it’s still not settled 15 years later and it’s not the mom fighting for her daughter’s name now, but the daughter herself. I wonder if this is something they’ve been pursuing all along or what the background is. Also, I enjoy everyone’s info about different cultures’ naming traditions. The question that comes up for me now is what happens when people move from one nation to another that has very different naming patterns? I think it said in the article that there is no Icelandic letter that would work for C for instance. My stepfather is Russian and even though their alphabet is different, he was able to use [name]Valentin[/name] as his equivalent name here. However, traditionally, my mom’s married last name would have an -a on the end of his, but being here, she took his last name exactly as is, because it’s what’s normal here.

13

I agree with the names having to be approved, because some parents are ridiculous.
As for a firm list with limited choices, that’s a bit much. I think there should be requirements to follow personally, and then the name is submitted for approval. Something that shows actually thought and consideration for the child instead of “Oh I want my child to be xyzunique!”

14

I think it´s actually a good thing that they have laws to protect the new born children if it comes to naming a child. If I read here in some forums what kind of names some people give their children :S That sometimes makes me feel really sorry for the child, especially when it comes to a) names that are actually surnames like MacDaniel or Davidson or b) names that are no names at all like words (flower, nature, places, invented names or real words written backwards (I´m not talking of names like [name]Daisy[/name] or [name]Dawn[/name] which have become real names through the past decades)). So from that point of view I do understand why the Icelandic Government tries to have a bit of control over the whole naming thing.

15

I did read about this poor girl’s dilemna. It certainly allows me to appreciate my [name]FREEDOM[/name] so much more! It is a shame that a government allows such political issues to rule someone’s life/identity in such a way. Grammer is such a petty issue of concern to control someone’s life.

16

I absolutely agree to that. That´s what I ment to say in my post :slight_smile:

17

I actually don’t have an issue with a pre-approved list, sometimes I think the U.S needs one in order to avoid names like Hashtag and La-a… It prevents people from having insulting, racist, misspelled, and stupid names imo.

In this case, the mother was just plain stupid. She could have changed the name once she knew it wasn’t on the list. Thanks to her, her daughter now is in a pickle.

18

Lol, like the naming having to follow the rules of phonetics? Some of the spellings I have come across just look illiterate.

I think a pre-approved list is a bit much, but I could see guidelines being a good thing.

19

There are studies that show how too much choice can actually be debilitating and how we are more likely to be dissatisfied later when we finally do choose (just google “too much choice is a bad thing”) In that way, a list is kind of nice. I am not sure if I would want one in reality, but I can see the merits at least.

20

I think it would be difficult in the U.S. to institute a pre-approved list. I think of how many cultures are represented by the people living here and although many do choose to give their children Americanized names, I can see why others would want to give their children names honoring their heritage. I definitely agree that a lot of parents give their children names that are burdensome, but it’s hard to know where to draw the line. Looking through the various threads on this site, in many cases, opinions on a name are far from unanimous. Plus, attitudes change over time–some names that would be considered unusable by our parents’ generation are all the rage on here (and vice versa), so if there were such a list or guidelines instituted, I’d think it necessary to periodically revise the rules.